Jesse helped bring this to attention as he’s the guy that got, quite literally, ripped off!
Timberlake Church has lifted his original design as found here:
New Worship Media, a neat site that gives resources for motion backgrounds and more, was the original design and, as per Jesse’s comment here:
I created the website http://www.newworshipmedia.com over a year ago – Sep 2009.
A local church (who was a subscriber to my site) recently launched their new website – http://www.timberlakechurch.com
Dang. That sucks, not to mention that the church’s logo looks pretty familiar too…
What gives?
Michael Jones says
looks like the church did it better too
Justin Phillips says
Not to be a troll, but I agree. The church website took the original design and made it much better.
Tim says
Not sure this counts as a “rip off.” It’s certainly visually related, but I have to say the design elements they imitated weren’t all that original in the first place. The designer saw a way that your friend solved a particular design problem and decided to use it too.
Jeff Alldridge says
It actually IS a rip off. If you look at the code, even the CSS IDs and source images are the same:
id=”fancybox-tmp”
id=”fancybox-loading”
id=”fancybox-overlay”
id=”fancybox-wrap”
etc.
Jesse’s
http://newworshipmedia.com/img/3d.png
Timberlake’s
http://www.timberlakechurch.com/Portals/31989/style/left-overhang.png
http://www.timberlakechurch.com/Portals/31989/style/right-overhang.png
Cindy says
No idea if there was a rip-off or not, here, but weighing on the side of caution, I’d like to point out a couple of things:
1. Fancy Box is a Javascript plugin used on most WordPress sites that have even a few images. Color Box and Thick Box are two other popular ones.
2. As for the style, the overhang look is being featured in half the templates at Template Monster and other places on the web these days. It will probably be usurped by something else soon.
3. The web building community has always encouraged others to take inspiration from other sites and find ways to implement the ideas in a way that makes them your own. I don’t mean copying a site verbatim, but creating that overhang look is something that most designers would actually write a tutorial on, showing others how to do it.
So, I’m just saying that it’s possible there was no ripoff attempt, after all.
Hope that helps.
Tim says
Those id’s are for fancybox (http://fancybox.net/) which is a lightbox js component. Both of them using it doesn’t mean it’s copied. Those images look really similar, but they are different sizes and colors, and the shapes are different angles. Solving a design problem with the same techniques and technologies, doesn’t mean it’s ripped off. I’ve written sliders almost exactly like that one from scratch before. I’m not saying that the one website isn’t inspired or related, the designer probably did look at the one and say, “hey I really like the way that looks, let me see how he did that” and then went and did it the same way on their own. There’s probably some decent legal precedents for determining these things.
My point is, even without pursuing this in court, there’s not a lot of good options here. I understand why the designer does feel ripped off, but it’s not worth the anger and unhappiness of spending time trying to get the other party to make you feel better.
Eric J says
Maybe inspired but imo it’s not a straight up rip off.
Drew Palko says
I agree… There’s a difference between churches stealing a popular design, and churches seeing a creative design element and implementing it into their own design. Wasn’t it once said that good artists borrow but great artists steal… or something 😛
Ben Miller says
I obviously don’t know the history here, and I don’t know what steps have already been taken, but don’t forget that Matthew 18:15-17 are always good words of advice when dealing with things like this.
Kenny says
I was going to say the same thing – I’m not a big fan of resolving disputes in this way.
John Saddington says
i’m not sure anyone is “sinning” here bro. there’s lessons here as well. no one’s suing anyone (at least to my knowledge).
Jesse J. Anderson says
For the record, I did attempt to contact the pastor several times and never heard back. I wasn’t attempting to stir up an anti-Timberlake storm or anything.
Their design actually went live a few months ago like and a friend of mine who goes there said to me “uhh, have you seen Timberlake’s new site?”
I’ve felt quite conflicted with what (if anything) to do about it. They are a local church that is doing good work, and the last thing I want to do is tear them down and become a distraction from their ministry.
But I do feel like I was ripped off, and I’ve attempted to contact them and received no reply. I’d basically chosen to try and ignore the whole thing, but when I saw the article about churches stealing design I felt compelled to share my frustration.
Kutterz says
OUCH. I hate it when that happens.
I have a church right down the road that constantly rips me off. I make a change, and two weeks later their is a slightly different (less professional) version of my work on their site.
My pastor keeps saying imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. In your case it isn’t imitation. It’s stealing. Sorry!
andrew says
Hey Guys,
I don’t usually post but I just finished watching the above movie (Movies: Everything is a Remix) and thought it kind of applied (Websites: Everything is a Remix).
Whether we like it or not I think it’s true, and I can honestly say although there are similarities, I wouldn’t categorize this as a “rip off”, more of just a remix.
austinklee says
It’s kind of like the CS Lewis vs. Twilight Book Cover thing. It’s a little too close for comfort.
http://grab.by/8Mj4 To take a look.
Chris Martin says
Wow this discussion seems to be drawing a line in the sand.
I am going to step onto the “it’s not a rip off” side. The site was obviously the main inspiration, but it’s not like they are going into the “worship motion” biz.
How are we going to sit here and harp on this church, that is obviously trying to reach and help people in a relevant way. Assume the best about people.
I realize that wasn’t the intention of the fine people over at 8bit when they posted this, their resources are always helpful, thought provoking and a blessing.
As a Church creative who is responsible for producing content week after week, it can be daunting. Your once sharp creative tip can become dull. Quite honestly I think as Church creatives we should spend more time trying to help each other than worrying about who is copying us.
So what if another church is using your idea. (I realize that it is different if you are freelancing)
Jesse J. Anderson says
Part of what makes the ripoff a big deal is that I am a freelance designer who markets to churches.
You can see on my website that my design work on newworshipmedia.com is part of my showcase for design work that I do. (http://echofaith.com/portfolio/#webdesign)
Being that Timberlake Church is a large church in the local area I work in, it is very likely that many of my potential clients (other churches) will have seen Timberlake’s site already. With Timberlake being a large church many people will likely assume that web designer they’ve never heard of (me) stole the design from them (a well-known, large church).
Like I said previously, I don’t want to cause a ruckus and hurt their ministry. But I do feel that this will be directly hurting my business by what I consider design theft.
This will rob my family of income, and that sucks.
There is nothing new under the sun, but being that they are a member of my website it’s obvious the inspiration was taken directly from my design. Some of you seem to disagree but maybe that’s because you didn’t spend time belaboring how many pixels to have for each element, how much padding to use, how much margin between, how wide to make the sidebar, what shades of grey work best to divide the columns – only to see all those exact elements copied by a local church who refuses to respond to me.
And for the record, I didn’t post this or ask for it to post – I simply provided it as an example of “ministry imitation”. As John said in that article:
“The problem is when it’s a complete rip-off. Is imitation the sincerest form of flattery or is theft just plain theft?”
Chris Martin says
Jesse,
I don’t disagree with your sentiment, and by the letter of the law I would say you definitely are in the right. I have no idea of your circumstances, and I wish I would have expounded on my statement: “I realize that it is different if you are freelancing”
And quite frankly, to play devils advocate to my own feelings I expressed above, a church has every right to enforce copyright infringement on there own work, and I respect that.
I think I read above you tried to contact the church, and you should if you feel that this will impede your ability to earn income for your family.
I realize that John posted this. I just want to reiterate that I am not bashing anyone for their voicing their opinion, rather joining in the discussion on this very relevant issue.
My wife an I also rely on freelancing as part of our income to pay the bills (mostly graphic and video, I try to stay away from web, it’s not my strong point) so I: can defiantly understand where you are coming from.
Patrick Ringler says
Yeah they are close. But the church website is clean and looks to be different in someways. But it does open the question how much has to change before you can say it did not copy? But Jesse just remember Copying is a form of flattery?
[email protected] says
Good artists copy, great artists steal – pablo picasso
Jason says
Really, i am sure you will find all kind’s of stuff is “inspired”. Move on… Where does it end. Techchrunch.com or Churchcrunch.com… was that original?