I have a love-hate relationship with both of these systems and I honestly don’t like one more than the other. Sure, I’m Mac-user but I’m no fanboi – I still have a few Windows boxes around my home and I use them for selected tasks.
Where do you stand? Do you sit squarely on one side of the fence or are you a man/woman of peace?
Devon Schreiner says
I am definitely a Mac fanboy. I love my Macs and I wouldn’t want to trade them for anything. But I do realize that you can get the same specs in a computer for much cheaper with another computer and I also know that the world basically revolves around Windows right now. I’m ok with using a Windows box but I can’t get enough of my Macs when I get home from work.
Matt Phelps says
Whatever gets the job done, I’ll use. I prefer pc for desktops/laptops partly due to the better bang for the buck, but mostly due to the fact that I prefer to build my desktops myself. I almost got an iPhone, but Android had more free apps. As for tablets, nothing really compares to the iPad (yet), so if I had the coin I’d get that. But I do try to avoid Dells. Bad experience with those. I tend to stick with Gateway, Acer, and HP. And only laptops get extended warranties.
Basically I go for whatever has the best specs at the price I’m looking for. I don’t use customer support enough to say so, so that isn’t a factor (thank you Google).
Geek for Him says
For me it’s all MAC. I use a windows machine at work and have no need what so ever to use one at home. I can remote in from my Mac at home to work no issues.
I honestly would not get another windows machine. No need for it.
Chad says
Personally, I am a mac user and so is my wife. I would have a hard time purchasing a pc now that I have used the mac. At the same time, I don’t disrespect PCs either and all of my first computers were PCs and I have very fond memories of late night computer-gaming with them.
Where I work, we would probably try and move to an all mac office, but we might have some compatibility problems with our printer and server (we run Windows 2003 Server). The difficulty is how to move people to macs one by one over time (moving everyone at once would be too expensive) and making sure eveything integrates well together, including software.
(p.s. has anyone else tried to move there work place to mac? What was it like?)
Daniel says
Which one has “Win” in its name, and which one is named after a fruit?
I rest my case.
Jonathan Mayhak says
comment approved!
James Brooks says
LOL
James Brooks says
I used to think that people who were SO anal about how mac was SOOO much better than PC were complete jerks.
Then I purchased a mac…
herbhalstead says
I was a winPC fanboy. Then I lightened up and realized “different strokes for different folks” was OK in the computer world. I think winPC gets a bad rap, but with perfectly supporting tens-of thousands (maybe more) different pieces of hardware, and having to make them work together is a tall order. I think MS has to be lauded for what they’ve been able to accomplish from a market standpoint, and a technical stand point.
Having said that, I bought a MacBook Pro for myself a few months ago (with Parallels and win7 for AuoCAD and Max), and I have to say that Apple makes the most refined hardware on the market. But, Steve Jobs lied – the Mac doesn’t always “just work” – and I have a few issues with MacOSX (stupid mac/application bar for one, and cmd-Q). But, I also have issues with windows, which I use daily at work.
This week, I bought my wife an 11″ MacBook Air. She’s smitten. As long as things like parallels exist, I don’t see myself buying a win-only device again.
Craig Allen says
Hey, I use all THREE! I have a Mac Mini (Snow Leopard), PC (Windows XP), and Linux on my laptop (Ubuntu). I don’t see any point in only using one product or brand. I use what I need to get stuff done as efficiently as possible. Although, I am partial to Apple’s mobile devices (iPod Touch)…
Shawn says
Bring the penguin! I’m a Linux user for many moons now. But if you like to pay too much for all the cool software I get for free or pay more for only one stinkin’ mouse button – that’s on you. GRIN
Kevin says
Word.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
dewde says
Linux is only cheaper if your time has no value.
peace | dewde
Kevin says
In the short term, yes. In the long term, no.
Time = Money is a lie from our culture.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
dewde says
Kevin
I love how consistent you are man. You can be counted onto balance out the discussion in a thought-provoking way.
With Linux there is always more time. You can’t just grab a new printer and know it will work. Also, for the audience this blog targets, going Linux may not be e best option.
But for some it would be perfect! And, Id love it if you wrote some articles for us that describe who, in the church, would benefit most from investing in learning it and using it. Maybe some “getting started” posts or comparison posts.
We want to resource the church, and your knowledge fills a gap we have in doing that in this area.
peace | dewde
Kevin says
dewde!
First, thanks so much for your sincere response. I very much appreciate you being willing to engage. I hope my response helps and shows the same respect.
To the printer comment, is OS X really any different? I’m in a mostly Mac environment at work and we continue to have printer problems all the time with all of the printers we have. That’s basically my argument. Things don’t always work with Macs either and it’s always taken seriously…so why not Linux too. I expect this to be like Firefox was to IE. IE had 90% market share so no one supported Firefox. But eventually, Firefox had enough of a minority that everyone started supporting it. I believe we are on the cusp of this type of support with Linux. With millions of netbooks, phones, and other devices being produced each year, manufacturers will soon find it in their best interests to support Linux from the get-go instead of letting someone else reverse engineer the support…actually, this is already happening.
Additionally, my argument is never that Linux or other open source software is the right answer for everyone today. However, it is to challenge you, as Christians, to think about more than feature set and usability in your IT decisions. To me, as Christians and Christian organizations, it’s a rather straight-forward thought process that we should be applying our Christian values to our whole life. In a digital world, this includes what software we use and why we use it. In every conversation I’ve seen on this blog (like this post) that asks the question, “What software should I use?”, all of them only look at cost, feature set and usability. Those are important things, but I believe just looking at our own budgets, our own feature set needs and our own usability preferences is an extremely selfish way to view these decisions. We shouldn’t just be looking at what should be the best option for us, but what is the best option for others as well. If you can support an open source project (and help out yourself in the process) and take the time and possibly feature set hit for your usecase, then you can help other churches and individuals use the same stuff (especially if they have a lesser budget that you do). All to say, defining the “best option” is more complex than we’d like to make it. Because of the concepts it’s built on (freedom, sharing, common good, etc.), open source is always the best option as a general rule.
This is exactly what my blog is supposed to be about. I already have a getting started with VirtualBox and Ubuntu post in my brain that hasn’t made it to reality. I hope that it will over the next year.
Honestly, the hardest part is that most people don’t use Linux or other open software simply because it’s different than what they are used to. And nobody likes their cheese moved. From my experience, I think most organizations could easily go to an all open source software environment if it was just about feature set (and cost…yes, free open source software has $$$ costs, granted, but much less than proprietary software). For the few people where it is just impossible because the software just isn’t available could use VirtualBox to run OSX or Windows in a VM for those tasks or see if an online version of the app is available (QuickBooks is a good example here). Of course, most organizations are already using great open source alternatives in many spaces like WordPress where it’s just understood that it is one of the best options.
I guess from my end, I also want to ask, what is the biggest technical hindrance (that basically means feature set) to you using open source software more?
As a recommendation, I would say DON’T move to an all open source software environment tomorrow. Just take one project or specific software that has a mature open source alternative and start using it. The more you use and have success with open source alternatives, the more you’ll start to look for them (because free is always in the budget). Eventually, you’ll figure out that you don’t have time to not use open source software like I have.
peace,
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Jared Erickson says
I definitely believe time = value, I could be spending time with my wife and family or out doing something for people instead of fidgeting with a “cheap” alternative to something that works.
I’m a huge fan of open source.. but not when I can’t count on it to work when/how I need it to. I’m sure you would find a lot of “un – ethical” things the creators of linux have been a part of.
Jared
http://jarederickson.com
Kevin says
This is why I said time != money and not time != value (I believe money was really what was meant in the original comment). You’re time does have value. Spending your time “doing something for people” is exactly why I advocate that Christians should be considering open source software. While there are “cheap” alternatives in the open source world, characterizing Linux as a cheap alternative is flat out a misrepresentation of what it is and does. It is easily toe to toe with Windows or OS X. Each will obviously have it’s strengths and weaknesses, of course. If you really look at what you’re spending your time fidgeting with open source software, many times it is just trying to cooperate with proprietary software like Microsoft and Apple produce anyways. It’s not the open source software’s fault that they don’t cooperate.
First, please read the article I already linked to in my post above as it speaks exactly to this argument.
Second, really the “my time has value” argument really comes down to this question. Who’s time and who’s value are you talking about? Really your only talking about your time and your value and not anyone else’s. There’s a name for this and it’s called selfishness. I don’t blame you or anyone else because our American culture teaches us from very young ages that our needs are the most important. Contrarily, when you spend time and create value on free and open source projects you are spending your time and creating value not just for yourself, but also helping others save their time and giving them free value. This gives exponential returns of value from your time. For Linux, the multiplier is millions of people. You will not see all of that value, but as Christians, we’re supposed to be putting others’ needs above our own. In a digital world, I believe this application of ethics and scripture is pretty straight-forward when you take the time to really examine it.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Shawn says
I don’t agree that Linux takes more time.
Windows install:
1 hour OS install (including updates)
.5 hour hardware and printer drivers
.5 hour Office software (including updates)
.5 hour Antivirus software and updates
.25 hour Graphics software
Ubuntu install:
.5 hour OS, drivers, printer, office, graphics… done.
I don’t have enough spare time to use Windows.
I would argue that it takes more time and expertise to install Windows these days than Linux.
Ah, but you say your computer came with all that work already done… so did mine. There are plenty of OEM system builders using Linux out there.
Matt Phelps says
I’ve always wanted to really try out Ubuntu, but I’ve never had a computer with decent power available. Well, now I have an old (~6 years) laptop that I want to set up as a server running Ubuntu. I just need to fix/replace the AC adaptor. (It has a 3.2GHz P4, and it likes to melt AC adapters. Original adapter the cable went bad, the second adapter overheated and melted (removable DC cable was no longer removable), and the third adapter the AC cord melted, although I think a surge triggered that. If anyone knows where to find a cord with this type of end let me know: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6626927/2010-10-30%2013.44.29.jpg)
Kevin says
It’s not secret, I have a hate-hate relationship with both mainly for ethical reasons about their business models. I think these are important issues that we as Christians gloss over much too easily.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Karin says
I love my Windows XP HP Laptop that I have had for 4 years. Not a Apple fan for various reasons, cost, applications, and the arrogance of Steve Jobs. Maybe some of us like flash. I am a bookkeeper and use QuickBooks and the Windows platform is just better than the Mac platform. Love my Android phone after 2 verrryyy looonnngg years with an iPhone.
Rick says
Currently a Mac user, which seems to work well. It’s definitely not perfect. I’m not a fan of the price, but I also notice that I spend less time supporting my Mac users than my PC users. To be fair, most of the PC equipment is older and still runs on XP. All in all, it’s a big whatever to me. I can use either just fine.
Marc says
I’m all about Mac. Here’s my biggest testimony to getting people to use Macs– My mom is nearly 60 (or is she 60 now…?), and she had always used a PC. I would always, and I mean ALWAYS, get phone calls from her asking “Marc. How do I do this?”, “I can’t get this to work. Can you show me?”, “It’s not working. Fix it.” And then one day I upgraded from my lil Macbook to a Macbook Pro and handed down my Macbook to her. I never showed her how to use it and I haven’t received one phone call or email on how to do something since then. Story told.
Kevin says
Too bad the stories don’t always end that way.
My friend finally bought his wife a Mac because he kept hearing about how easy they were. So far (it’s been a year or two now), he’s spending way more time teaching her how to use it and fixing problems she has doing things with it than he ever was with her old Windows computer. Granted she’s not very techy at all, but isn’t that the whole point of the magic of a Mac?
Of course, both of these are just anecdotes that really don’t prove anything. The truth is that your mileage may vary depending on your use case and what you end up doing with it. You’ll either have a super easy time or you won’t. Go figure.
My experience (in a mostly Mac work environment) is that Macs do exactly what you want them to do as long as they do exactly what you want them to do. 😉
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Jason Cooper says
Worked in both Mac and win for years. Finally went all Mac almost two years ago. Have had no significant problems with Mac, just some small things – many of which are related to third party apps or hardware. Win 7 is certainly an improvement, but still prefer Mac. So much smoother. Spend much more time supporting co-workers win machines. While you can save money by buying windows machines, cheap computers are cheap computers.
In my mind the difference is that the average user does not know how to keep their machine running well. With macs you don’t have to think about it.
Same with smart phones. If you are a programmer or very technical, android is for you. If you are an average user, iPhone rules. If you are cheap like me, iPod touch and a flip phone can take you a long way.
herbhalstead says
Besides, does “easier to use” necessarily mean “better?” – no.