This is somewhat of a rant more than anything so read at your own leisure (or caution) and with some earmuffs.
The last 24 (or so) hours have been relatively sleepless as I’ve been experimenting with JS-Kit’s new ECHO commenting system. Although it started out so well it quickly has burned down in flaming glory of fail.
The installation was probably the best part about the entire experience, which is pretty sad. If you want to hear about my experience you may continue, otherwise, go read something better.
Here’s what went wrong:
Fail No. 1: Paying for JS-Kit Live
I paid $12.00 for a year of JS-Kit Live so that I could get as much of an experience out of the system as possible. I started running into snags instantly as the system couldn’t “tell” if I was a paid customer and a number of the options that should have been made available to me weren’t.
The overwhelming feeling of “scam” quickly creeped into my brain and that is not what you want any of your customers thinking at any time. Even though I know they were a reputable company the moment you throw money at someone your expectations are raised and if you don’t get what you pay for in a timely manner it’s not a good thing.
It eventually kicked over but not without having to scream at someone.
Fail No. 2: Login and Profile Confusion
This was one of the most frustrating parts of JS-Kit: The login system is bunk. Not only was there confusion on accounts and “blogs” owned but every time I attempted to login it kicked me out or logged me in as someone else.
Now, I know there’s something to be said about cookies on my box and also that I had signed up ages ago under a different name, but the system was so kloogey and I never knew with 100% certainty if I was logged in correctly. I may have looked like it at times (on the blog) but in the admin I wasn’t (and vice versa).
Having to login every.single.freaking.time gets so old so fast.
Fail No. 3: Password Reset is Bogus
The fact that this is an issue and that I’m blogging about this is super-lame. Trying to change your password is easy but only after you find the answer through their GetSatisfaction page and Wiki. The fact that it’s not obvious nor easy is lamesauce. Super disappointed that they skimped out on some basic uX principles.
Fail No. 4: Support Needs Improvement (Understatement)
The support system is pretty bad and the timeliness of responses are even worse. In addition, whatever system they are using to manage trouble tickets needs to be fixed too (it seems like it’s just an inbox) since I had to repeat my concerns a number of times to multiple staff.
That shouldn’t happen.
Copying and pasting my issue isn’t something that I should be doing. In addition, I “feel” that all the support I’m getting is from staff in Russia (based on their names). Now, I don’t have anything against Russians at all; it’s more a matter of providing valuable coverage in different timezones so that when people in the US have issues there’s a person awake to answer the call.
Fail No. 5: Comment Importing FAIL
The fact that I need to submit a separate individual request to import comments (for blogs with “a lot” of comments), give them my username and password to the backend of my blog, and then FTP .php files for them so that I can get comments imported is a complete and utter fail.
This is perhaps the worst system ever.
Why in the world should I have to FTP files for them, give them my account info to the backend? There are so many problems with this process that it makes me nervous for them as a business. That’s just unsafe. What if they leaked my login info? What if I didn’t know how to use an FTP program? What if I overwrote some important .php file?
Very scary.
IntenseDebate and the other commenting systems handle large comment imports without issue, why not you JS-Kit?
Fail No. 6: Syncing with Comments
The fact is that syncing JS-Kit’s comments with WordPress’ failed miserably; it just didn’t work. I had to submit requests to get this done and they had to do it for me.
Why? Why doesn’t it just “work”?
Making your customers sit with fear that they’re going to lose comments if they abandon your product is sad. The only reason I had JS-Kit installed for as long as I did was because I didn’t want to lose the 50+ comments made that day.
Ugh.
Fail No. 7: The Product is Just Not Mature Yet
There are almost too many critiques and thoughts to nail down here but here are a few of my criticisms:
- Backend admin is slow.
- Moderation is slow, not intuitive.
- Social Networking profiles gets “confused”; doesn’t work very well.
- Trackbacks/Comments need better management.
- More intuitive design of admin is needed.
- Notification settings need some work and better copy for clarity.
- CSS management and customization is too hard for a new person.
- Customization in general is poor and too hard/not intuitive.
- Parts of interface are broken, popups for smiles and uploading, etc is poor design. Don’t do popups!
- I’ve heard syncing comments is slow; doesn’t suprise me.
- Too many opportunities for the product to “break.” That’s not good.
- Importing Comments… check. I mean, fail. Fix that.
- Sigh…
Ultimately, the system as a whole turned grossly sour in my opinion the moment I started using it. I thought it was going to be way cool with all those different points of entry and tracking multiple sources for comments (like Twitter, Facebook, Delicious, FriendFeed, etc). but it’s just pure chaos.
Fail No. 8: The Community Didn’t Like It
This one was the biggest fail. More people emailed me personally (and commented) that they just didn’t like the new commenting system.
I trust my community; if they say that it sucks, it sucks.
Whew. /rant Off…
You know, comments are comments. Let’s leave them be. So, I’m headed back to IntenseDebate. I may try Disqus, but I need to get my junk straight before I have another nightmare-comment-scenario…
I’m all about innovation, but I’m really all about functional-innovation too. I’d love to try it again but I’d need 100% certainty that it’s going to work.
And man… all that time lost… for what? The only thing I got out of this was a 1,000+ word blog post about lameness.
CoffeeWithChris says
If it's any consolation I'm sure you saved a lot of us from experimenting with it ourselves! Thanks!
jaledwith says
I second that.
human3rror says
excellent.
human3rror says
π that's a good thing.
Josh Wagner says
Same here.
damonparnell says
I am by no means a pro; but, I felt intense debate was better also. The admin of Echo seemed kind of clunky and confusing. Glad there's a real pro that confirmed what I felt.
Sorry 'bout ur troubles. Maybe we could hold a prayer vigil for your lost comments. LOL
human3rror says
PUAHA!
joannamuses says
I think it would be better that you go back to IntenseDebate than to use Disqus. Disqus can sometimes be a pain as a commenter as it often wants you to log in or claim comments
human3rror says
ah, good point.
Chris Saad says
Hi John,
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with Echo. You seem to have run into every possible edge case possible.
I trust you requested and received a full refund correct?
We will work on the issues you described (many are already top priorities) and continue to improve the product based on great feedback like this.
Whenever you are interested to try again, drop me a line personally and I will comp you a copy.
Chris – JS-Kit Team
human3rror says
Chris,
I have not gotten a refund yet, still waiting on that..
Thanks! I hope they get hammered out and I can come back full tilt…!
john
Brian Alexander says
It's great to see that ECHO saw this. I think it might have something to do with your popularity level and number of readers here. Hope they do get their problems sorted out though.
human3rror says
i agree. i got my refund. π
Jim says
Yeah, I wasn't happy with it…it was confusing….
klreed189 says
I think intense debate was trying to get you back for switching. Karma my friend
human3rror says
perhaps… π
Scott M. says
Ouch.
human3rror says
haha. how you doing scott?
djchuang says
well, welcome back IntenseDebate! π
human3rror says
hehe. π
dannyjbixby says
Win #1: A company taking responsibility for the shortcomings of a product. Though it may not be up to par with what you were expecting, having someone like Chris up there affirming your concerns is much better than someone shouting you down.
If those things get corrected in time, it could be well worth using some point in the future.
Chris Saad says
Thanks Danny
We have also refunded John all his money but kept his account 'Live' which means he can switch back any time he feels the product has matured at no cost.
Thanks again for the great feedback John.
human3rror says
Thanks Chris!
andydarnell says
I'm still laughing at the "flaming glory of fail." My wife thinks I'm crazy. She's probably right.
human3rror says
yeah. i liked that too.
rodlie says
John, I think I love you. π
Seriously, appreciate you taking one for the team on that, and thanks for listening to the people. I completely felt like a fish out of water just trying to make a comment. It was so confusing. It's so nice just to be able to make a normal comment and to not have to wonder how to do that.
Michael Koenig says
+1… John, I think I love you too! π
We're stoked to have you back using IntenseDebate! Woo hoo!
human3rror says
π
Michael Koenig says
Hmm… something's up with smileys. I'm looking into it.
Michael Koenig says
testing π
Michael Koenig says
testing π
Mikes Sumondong says
*sigh*
Thomas says
That's odd. I made nearly the same experience with JS-Kit 8 month ago. Problems with login, import not working, support responds days later and tells me, they can't help me unless I provide them with all my passwords. I hadn't much to lose so I gave them to that support guy, but I've never heard from him again (days later I changed the passwords). And now, 8 months later, the same problems appear, but now you have to pay for them? o.0
human3rror says
WHOA! no way…
Thomas says
Yeah, you're right, that's not exactly what happened. To be fair I've to add that I forgot that the support guy actually did respond to me, but days after I wrote him that I won't wait any longer (for him to do something with my password) and that I've changed my password. So they didn't ignore me at all, just responded way to slow for me. It just, I didn't want to wait weeks for a solution to a problem that the competitors don't even have. That's way I switched to ID (and a few days ago to DISQUS)…
human3rror says
why disqus?
Thomas says
For some reason no one was able to find out, IntenseDebate displayed my comments randomly under wrong entries (see
http://getsatisfaction.com/intensedebate/topics/c… )
JoJo says
I hear ya! I had all kind of comments I did not know I had and now I got comments that are showing up on every post. Ahh. I think it's time to ditch it.
gb506 says
Thanks for posting this rant – I’m trying to decide btw disqus, intensedebate and echo. This was helpful.
John Saddington says
cool. i’ve now moved from all of them.
Alexandre Ribeiro says
Wich plugin are you using to display the red author badge on your comments?
Iβm trying to figure a good comment system for my blog, but seems you got a nice one here.
Thanks in advance.