I’m not much of a cusser, but I am thinking about having a change of heart. It seems that cursing and Christianity have always been in opposition to each other, at least on the surface. It’s a well know fact that you do not curse, smoke, chew and date girls that do (or something like that). Well that was a well known fact about 50 years ago. Lately, “christians” have been turning this notion on its head.
Regardless of your preferred language choice, lately certain artist that are labeled christian have come under fire for using certain curse words in their music. One of the most well known examples was the great Derek Webb. In his song What Matters Most, Webb says this::
‘Cause we can talk and debate until we’re blue in the face
About the language and tradition that he’s comin’ to save
Meanwhile we sit just like we don’t give a shit
About 50,000 people who are dyin’ today
This little word stirred up a great argument of whether or not this type of language is appropriate for christians to be listening to. In an effort to please both sides the record label released two CD’s, one with the song “what matters most” (and an explicit label on the front cover) and the other without the song.
Check out the song in question:
You might be thinking, “this is old news, why are we talking about this again?” Well another artist is at it again.
Recently Sufjan Stevens released his newest album for preview from NPR (listen here) entitled “The Age of ADZ”. The only thing that might be of controversy here on the surface is a curious album title, but upon further listen something else jumped out at me. The song I Want to Be Well contains some offensive language that would definitely warrant an explicit label based off of Derek Webb’s explicit track.
Towards the end of the song Sufjan goes into a break down and repeatedly says:
I am not F’ing around
Upon first listen I was pretty shocked to hear Sufjan say this. I know he does not label himself a Christian artist, but a christian that makes music. But I was surprised to hear him drop the F bomb…multiple times.
Hear it for yourself here:
As I listened to this song I could not help but wonder, where is the line? I do not want to turn this into a pro-cussing verse non-cussing argument, what I do wonder about is how culturally relevant does the church need to be when using music and art?
In an effort to connect with christians and non-christians churches have used “secular” music during church services to relay a truth from the sermon and the message of the song. One example jumps to my mind is something that Central Christian Church in Las Vegas did recently.
Check out the video:
Obviously the song has been re-written to tell the story of Gary and his choice to take responsibility for his life. But if this song was presented without being re-written, the Eminem version, it would be laced with words that would make my grandma blush (more info on the Gary video here).
This does not detract from the message, or does it? I wonder if people get so caught up in what they know it says and miss the message that is right in front of them. The same can be said for Sufjan Stevens and Derek Webb. In fact, Derek is hitting on a huge issue that is way bigger then one cuss word, but it seems that message gets lost behind the argument of being “family friendly” music.
I would love to hear from you the community, the church members, church staff, and worship leaders, when you are planning your creative elements of your Sunday morning service or participating in the Sunday morning elements of service what is the line that you are willing to hold to? Do you use “secular” music in your service? Why or why not?
Stephen Bateman says
Sufjan is a christian? I had no idea.
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t cuss. But there is no way in…*backing up*…heck…that I would choose to be offended by cussing. I want to be angry about bigger issues.
With that, two caveats:
1. Cussing *at* someone is unacceptable. Real words folks.
2. cussing for cool points is dumb.
Kyle Reed says
agreed
Blane Young says
I agree 100%.
Well said!
Nathan Duvall says
This is a way bigger issues in my book than cussing. It’s how the church or we as “Christians” in general are placing such an importance on being “culturally relevant”. Where in Scripture are we commanded to do this? All I see are commands to be in the world but not of it. It’s far more than a distraction at this point, it’s a failure on our part to be salt and light in a world that really needs more than what we’re offering them.
From “explicit lyrics” to having 3D services to polling our communities asking how we can make them feel more “comfortable” in our services – we, as the church are focused on all the wrong things.
Look no further than Daniel and friends (from the OT) to see how to we can live in a culture but not be influenced or changed by it. They took it so far as to not eat the kings meat when they first arrived and all throughout their life we see example after example of how they consistently set themselves apart from what the culture around them was doing. As a result, they changed the culture instead of allowing the culture change them.
We’re called to be set apart to God, live holy lives – not try to blend in with what the world’s doing just so they’ll think we’re cool. They’re not fooled by our lame attempts to fit in – just ask them.
Nathan Duvall says
By the way, I know some will read my previous comment and dismiss it, thinking I’m promoting a legalistic way of living – I’m not. I just think we’ve got to screen everything we do through God and his word, both as a church and in our own personal lives. Of course, we’re in the world, we’re going to be influenced by it to some extent, but I think we’ve just gotten to the point where we’ve allowed the world to dictate what we do and the direction we’re going as followers of Jesus and as ‘the church’ because it’s popular, hip or cool.
Ben says
What Nathan said! Couldn’t have said it better.
Kyle Reed says
I think then the real conversation comes into play, are christians the one that should be leading culture and the arts?
David says
The Bible is explicit that we should be, not just in arts, but everything : Ephesians 1:23
“The church, you see, is not peripheral to the world; the world is peripheral to the church.”
Rather than copying the world, if we really tap into God’s creativity we’ll come up with stuff that attracts the world purely because it’s God and not because it’s cool in their eyes. It won’t be something that can be explained. It really is handing the creative process back to God and saying to Him “use me to build”. And none of us do that well; our human pride in our gifts etc rises up.
In the end, what’s the fruit? If all this discussion does is cause those outside the Church to wonder what on earth we’re bickering about again, what’s the point?
Patrick Woods says
I’ve found that “cultural relevance,” and more specifically when it’s “in quotes,” is a handy term used by some to discount an opinion that challenges their understanding of Christianity and wider culture.
Like most labels, “cultural relevance” is used mostly as an ad homimen by casting the question at hand into a basket of all the other “culturally relevant” things Christians try to “do.”
Using language in this way can be as danger as cussing, though more subtly so, because by so quickly applying labels, and especially by putting those labels “in quotes,” we ignore the discussion and remain entrenched in our preconceived opinions.
It’s easy to say “well that’s just that group trying to be ‘more relevant’ when what we really need is to get back to the Gospel…” and just write-off the discussion at hand.
Anyway, from my experience, the discussion of relevance for the sake of itself became passé many years ago. I am who I’m becoming and don’t usually filter that through some sort of relevance rubric. I’m glad a lot of folks have moved past/transcended that mire.
Hell, I don’t cuss that often, but I have many Christian friends that do. And they’re pretty cool people. Not because they’re trying to fit-in to “culture,” as if it’s some homogeneous group, but because they’re comfortable in their own redeemed yet broken skin.
Nathan Duvall says
Strong words. Your last statement kinda sums it up for me though… “they’re comfortable in their own redeemed yet broken skin”.
That’s the problem for me, we’ve gotten way too comfortable and too complacent in our own skin. We’ve allowed the world to dictate what is and what is not acceptable that we’ve just deemed it permissible. I’m not saying everything that’s culturally relevant is sin, I’m just saying it may not be (in the words of Paul) “expedient” (1 Cor. 10:23). I just see no biblical basis for this line of thinking. All I see is the lines between the followers of Jesus Christ and the world we’re supposed to be ministering to, blurred beyond point of recognition. That’s all I’m saying.
Patrick Woods says
“All I see is the lines between the followers of Jesus Christ and the world we’re supposed to be ministering to, blurred beyond point of recognition.”
I think our point of divergence is where these lines are drawn and who draws them. I’m sure we’d both say the Bible is the line-drawer, though I’m not so keen on that metaphor. But I’m sure we’d both also acknowledge that many people would draw the lines around different things and still have biblical lines.
I guess my point is that the busier you are drawing lines and creating boundaries, the less you’ll be able to focus on loving the humanity in your midst.
So at what point does the line-drawing stop? What would the Amish say?
So what does “culturally relevant” really even mean? What would be an example of something that’s not culturally relevant?
I post that this terminology is void of all meaning and should be burned at the stake.
Kevin says
For being different than the world, I personally draw the line on whether you use open source software or not. 😉 Joking…sort of.
Seriously though, while arbitrary lines are generally unhelpful as absolute measures it is helpful to challenge people and discuss in the proper contexts to see why the line is where it is (for you or your organization) and if it should be moved. Everyone draws lines whether we try to or not, so trying to just remove or ignore them sort of misses the point too?
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Kevin says
The blurring has been happening for a long time before Derek Webb or anyone else cussed on a record though. Now we are just arguing about what are the salient points to being “different than the world” and if cussing is one of them (at least in this discussion). Derek Webb would probably say that cussing isn’t, but watching 50,000 people needlessly die without caring is. I agree and I think Jesus would to. If we look at Jesus life, we know that Jesus was known as a glutton and a drunk (Matt 11:18-19) and therefore cared less about people’s perception of him and more about investing in and loving people. He also seemed more impressed by those acting out the good news rather than following the letter of the law (Matt 23). It’s just a bummer that everyone always thinks that the Pharisee hypocrites that Jesus talks to/about are always everyone else. On the other hand, it’s always refreshing to see people point the finger at themselves every once and a while and recognize their depravity without making excuses for it.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Jon G says
When planning a worship service, I have to ask myself, Does this glorify God? Isn’t that the purpose of a worship service. To worship God?
I thought that the guy re-writing the Eminem song was pretty cool. He was actually pretty good for someone imitating another person’s song.
I know a number of churches and parachurch ministries use secular songs. I guess it would depend on the song but I have to be honest that whenever I hear “Lean On Me” in a worship service I laugh because it just seems so hokie. It’s like Christians can’t come up with anything good on their own so let’s rip off something from the secular world and try to make it stick. I’m still singing all of the original words in my head though.
As for cussing in a song or service, I feel like when it’s done, it’s done to make a point. Is that point to glorify God? not usually. then why do it at all?
Kyle Reed says
Thats a good filter
Kyle says
agreed…
Tony Perez says
I think the Bible is clear when it comes to the subject of cursing:
Colossians 3:8
But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
With that said, cursing is something, as christians, God wants us to “put off” but I don’t expect the non-believer to know this or even try to do this. As non-believers pay attention to they way we live, not cursing or speaking “filthy language” is one small way they notice a difference in us and can be used to witness to them.
Kevin says
I don’t think any of this as to do with “cultural relevance” at all, but rather “Christian culture relativism”. I’m not much of a cusser and never have been, however, a couple years ago I came to the conclusion that I was using very surfacy, external, and pharisaical reasons for justifying my salt and light-ness to the world to myself. Honestly, I started cussing more just to see if I really looked any different than the world if I took away the shallow excuses. And honestly, I found that I didn’t really look like Jesus whether I cussed or not. I found I was just as selfish and inwardly focused as every other American and I didn’t appreciably look like Jesus or love those around me like Jesus did.
As Christians, I believe we look at ourselves through our relative Christian culture and find stupid things like not cussing and tea-totalling so that we feel like we are different than the world even though we aren’t. We use these excuses for each other to pat ourselves on the back and feel good that we are being salt and light when we really aren’t.
I think distilling this down to “cultural relevance” is missing the whole point that Derek Webb is trying to make. I think cultural relevance has nothing (or at least very little) to do with it. I think his whole point is the Christian community will make way more of a stink about whether he says shit in a song than they will about 50,000 people dying when we could do something. And as far as I can tell he was right. I think, like Derek has done, we need to look at the words of Jesus in the parable of the Good Samaritan. All of the law and prophets isn’t summed up in whether we cuss or not, it’s summed up in how we love God and love our neighbor especially those in trouble that are dying that we could help.
I challenge any Christian to take a hard look at themselves and ask, how am I really being salt and light? Do I just make myself feel better by not cussing and having the “correct” political views? Do I really live out love for others as Jesus did? Or do I just act selfishly and use excuses like the religious people that passed by and ignored someone dying and in trouble?
Cultural relevance is just a straw man than diverts the discussion away from the true heart issues because loving God and loving your neighbor are always culturally relevant.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Kyle Reed says
Great point Kevin. Good thoughts
Kyle Shevlin says
Eph 4:29 (NLT) “Don’t use foul or abusive language.” Perhaps not the best translation, but pretty clear on its point. That being said, there are certain cultures around the world that don’t have foul language in the same sense that we do. What would this verse mean to them?
Another question we should ask, is our culture shifting to a point where these words will no longer be foul? I don’t know if we’ll ever make it that far, but we are heading in that direction. Personally, I think swearing can be an effective tool, especially in the manner that this blog was written. It awakens people. I think what we’re seeing in art is a prophetic voice calling to the public to wake up from its world-induced sedation.
Kevin says
Here’s another example that someone passed to me a few weeks ago:
http://www.altervideomagazine.com/2010/10/04/what-would-jesus-brew/
Does it change the conversation when it’s not necessarily art/artistic and just theology/philosophy? It’s a blurry line though…
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com
Kyle Reed says
I saw that as well.
Maybe it is because people are challenging the “sacred” untouchables. You know, like wwjd or secular music. I really think a lot of it has to do with a younger generation being involved.
BenJPickett says
I personally don’t agree with cuss words, I think that they are syllables that we pronounce and our society has defined them as inappropriate and as bad words. I myself define them on how they are used and the context of a sentence. If a sentence or phrase is intended to hurt, belittle, condemn, insult, or crush someone either to their face or behind their back it’s bad words. But because we have a culture that has defined certain words in this manner, to stay relevant to our culture we have to recognize these things and rise above them.
I used to swear like a sailor and as I came to know Christ and started turning my life inside out self examining my worth and value as salt and light to the world I knew I had to hold myself to a higher standard. I gave up a lot of things and that was one of them, and I find that I struggled with the others more than I did with my choice of words. If we are to lead people to Christ we have to step up and be more Christ like, regardless of our thoughts on cussing or not it’s not our opinions that matter on this affair.
Kyle Reed says
Glad that you were able to make some changes after examining your life. Very tough to do, but change is good. Thanks for your thougths
Alastair says
You should check out the latest story about the rappers Insane Clown Posse. Makes those other songs kid friendly in comparison.
http://j.mp/9Sz7pQ
Kyle Reed says
I saw that the other day. Pretty crazy, I do not know if I believe it or not. But pretty crazy non the less.
Kyle Reed says
Here is a great follow up interview to this blog post.
http://thequietus.com/articles/05085-the-age-of-adz-sufjan-stevens-interview
Features sufjan
Craig Allen says
As a musician and songwriter, I look at what Webb did as a desperate cry for attention. His album has gotten several poor reviews apart from his choice of lyrics. In his context, I look at using that one word as unnecessary EXCEPT for the purpose of creating a controversy in the Christian music industry (which it did) that would put his name in all the headlines (which it also did). Apart from the context of the conversation about whether it’s right or wrong for Christians to curse, I simply chose to “unfollow” and “unlike” him online and got rid of his new album.
In any case, I have two young children and do not want to expose them to this language or culture yet. If cursing becomes an acceptable norm in Christian music, I’m just going to stop buying their albums.
For even more controversy, check out what Webb’s recent tour-mate, Jennifer Knapp, is up to…
Kevin says
Man, I hope you don’t treat all your friends that way especially your non-Christian friends…oh, do you have any of those? Jesus did. I’m sure prayer for Derek and Jennifer has also been at the top of the list amidst all the disliking and defriending.
The irony of the statement I believe Webb was making with his song (which is only minorly different than yours, actually, and definitely needed the language he used) and the content of your comment is almost funny…almost.
Kevin
http://opensourcechurch.com