Christianity Today had a recent article titled: “Church … Virtually” which has noted a number of interesting points and perspectives. Comments from the LifeChurch folk, Seacoast, and Flamingo Road and others make it into the article. Bob Hyatt and Shane Hipps weigh in too.
It’s well worth the read if you’ve got a few minutes. One of my most favorite quotes is this in regards to the topic:
No husband would want a virtual bride; no mother would want a virtual child. Yet our union with fellow church members—other interdependent parts of Christ’s body in Paul’s language—is of greater importance than union with family.
Apparently Paul Steinbrueck agrees.
The on-going dialogue between ministries and leaders will continue in earnest this year as more and more ministries jump online. I hope that the discussions will prove to be civil, and perhaps the way in which we discuss the issues is more important than whether we ever come into agreement.
Adam_S says
In some ways I think that is a perfect illustration. People don't want a virtual spouse, but 1 in 8 couples that get married this year will have met originally online. They don't stay viritual, the relationship becomes physical. But it started virtually. This is what many people that are for virtual church believe, that the virtual will become physical eventually. Many of those against virtual church think that it will never become physical and so want to stop the whole process. My vote, if some are reached this way and would not have been reached through our normal "invite you to church" methods, then it is great. Maybe I am wrong and in a few years we will realize that it doesn't work as evangelism. But from what I hear, virtual churches are reaching a lot of people that would not have go inside a physical church.
human3rror says
yes, it's true. lots of people are moving from the virtual space into physical buildings and ministries. i think it's wonderful.
dannyjbixby says
I know it's a sweeping judgement. But here it is. The more and more I read from people who are against virtual church, or online faith communities or things of that nature, the more I am convinced of their ignorance. That if they were involved with one, or witnessed the true life change that can occur through these mediums that they would change their tune instantly.
I could be wrong. I am probably over generalizing. But many stories I read from those against it have zero experience with church online. Personally, I don't think online church is a goal, but rather a tool. Likewise I don't know many ministers whose "goal" is to get people to show up on Sunday. I doubt most churches would say that attendance in their worship services is their priority.
I almost equate it to racism, xenophobia, homophobia and the like. Yes, that's brutal, I'm sorry. But often the loudest cries against foreigners are from those who have spent their lives in a sheltered & xenophobic state. The more gay people you know, friend, share life with, and see the love in their heart, the harder it is to just chalk up homosexuality to being a sinful state against God.
And yes those are anecdotal comparisons…I'm ok with it.
It's in that same manner that I believe it's those who are ignorant of the potential of online church who are its loudest and most persistent critics.
To be honest, I'm getting really fed up with the "discussion" at this point. I can't imagine I'm alone.
human3rror says
dan,
i'm with you. there's an apparent belief that it's ok to criticize something without “trying it” or experiencing it.
super lame, if you ask me.
PaulSteinbrueck says
Danny, that was one of the lessons I learned from our blog series about online church. Most people base their opinions of online church on their own experiences (or lack there of.) A lot of people will say, "You can't form deep relationships online." or "You can't do accountability online." or "You can't do communion online" simply because they have never experienced those things for themselves.
Many people are way to quick to draw conclusions and make judgements rather than continuing to listen and learn about the issue.
PaulSteinbrueck says
Yeah, I found the virtual spouse/child analogy is very compelling.
After doing the 9 part series about church online on Christian Web Trends I'm at the place where I believe online church is good for a lot of reasons but less than ideal compared with offline church. So, my hope is that online churches and internet campuses will continue to press forward and innovate but also encourage those who are able to connect with an offline church to do so.
Most of all. though. like you said I want to see the conversation about online church continue in a thoughtful, God-honoring way.
Where are you and NPOnline on this? I don't think I've ever heard you say. Does NP encourage people who participate in NPOnline to get involved in an offline church? Or do you encourage people to make NPOnline their church home?
kylegilbert says
Love the last line of the post, John. That's the most important part, I think. Nothing worse than Christians tearing each other to shreds just because they disagree.
And for me as an Internet Campus Pastor, I have to remember that I'm doing this for Jesus. Some people may think what I do is a joke, but that's OK. I'm not doing this for them.
human3rror says
how's that position going for you? got some cool stories?
kylegilbert says
No doubt!
There's a young girl who lives out of state who was invited to attend by her father (he attends our physical campus). She started attending online and offered to volunteer online as a greeter. When I called her on the phone, I realized she wasn't a Christian and got to lead her to the Lord. A few weeks later, her boyfriend was watching online and committed his life to Christ.
Over Christmas, they traveled here, and I got to baptize both of them, and we broadcast the video online.
Honestly, I can hardly keep up with all the stories. People in the hospital having babies and watching from the hospital the next day, sick people and people with sick kids, home bound people from all over the US, people who have been burned by the church and are giving the church another try. So many fun stories. Seems like there's new ones almost every week.
God's doing some awesome stuff online. Can't believe I get to be a part of all this!
CountryCuban says
There is so much authentic community happening online, and like Kyle, I wouldn't even know where to begin sharing the amazing stories that come from Flamingo. Just this past weekend, we had someone fly in from Switzerland to get baptized in 30 degree weather, in 50 degree water. They would've never flown in, if they hadn't felt that they had experienced authentic community with the Internet Campus staff, and other Internet Campus members.
For me, seeing lives change will always trump sticking to the status quo.