An article yesterday from the Associated Press and Yahoo! News stated:
The World Wide Web has become the hottest place to build a church.
Fascinating.
Citing Flamingo Road (which has a new homepage btw, and looks fantastic!) and Brian Vasil as examples, they bring up a great point that everyone is wrestling with:
The move online is forcing Christians to re-examine their idea of church. It’s a complex discussion involving theology, tradition and cultural expectations of how Christians should worship and relate. Even developers of Internet church sites disagree over how far they should go. Many, for example, will only conduct baptisms in person.
The definition of “Church” is one of the most significant discussions that we can have today because what we do technologically will reflect these perspectives and beliefs.
I think there is a definite correlation between a local church’s online expression and how they theologically view the Church and how this pragmatically plays out in everyday life.
What do you think? Where are you standing in the mix?
[Image from TonyVC]
Paul Steinbrueck says
John, I agree this is one of the most significant discussions going on today.
I am curious to hear what you think. I don't think I've ever heard your take on Northpoint's Internet campus. Do you see it as an end, meaning the goal is to get people involved in the Internet campus? Or do you see it as a means to drive people towards offline community?
friar_don says
I believe the Church as the body is separate from the church as a local institution, online or otherwise. I have the hardest time with online church as it comes to adminsitering the sacraments. How can you take communion and baptize over the web? I do not think it works. Online church may include preaching / teaching and even music, but not the sacraments. Therefore, I have a hard time understanding how we can substitute (every week) local church by being at home in our PJ's. I know I will be in the minority here, but I fail to see online church as a viable choice for believers. Please do not flame me too hard on this one.
stephenbateman says
hey Friar,
I promise to be civil, but I want to gently push back and say that I don't think Scripture shows a separation between the church universal and local. I'm interested to hear a bit more on that. But more on topic:
I agree that church in PJ's wasn't *quite* (sarcasm) what Jesus envisioned when he prayed that we would be "one" as he and the father are one. I believe that God engages people where they are…including on the internet. And I understand your angst, at least a little bit, about taking the sacraments lightly.
Yohan Perera says
Actually we have to understand what is universal and local. Personally I refer to a building where people gather to worship the Lord as the local church. Universal means the spiritual aspect of church, the body of Christ.
I am sure God uses technology to reach the lost. But technology cannot replace God's original idea of the church.
friar_don says
Thanks Yohan. That was my definition.
dewde says
You make excellent points. I don't have anything to add (or even dispute) so I'll just chew on your words.
peace | dewde
joanna says
This is a topic i'm still quite torn on.
I'm considering pursuing a sociological honours thesis on the topic, studying how interaction and commitment differs in online and "real world" church
@thefinley says
I, personally, feel that online church should foster offline community. There are of course a number of things that simply cannot be done online (eg. baptism), but that is not as much of an issue in my mind. Paul wouldn't have used Facebook, Twitter, or email as primary communication. He would have traveled to the churches and the people and preached the Word in person. Online church should be focused on creating disciples, bringing them together in real community and sending them forth into the world.
Tom says
"I, personally, feel that online church should foster offline community." Completely agree.
Danny Bixby says
"I think there is a definite correlation between a local church’s online expression and how they theologically view the Church and how this pragmatically plays out in everyday life."
Very much so agree on this.
Unfortunately, in some ways, I am disturbed that something like this is that large of an issue. You say that this is one of the most significant discussions occurring today….which is true….and to me, is also bad.
I see it as disappointing that a discussion like this takes so much of our (the church) resources, time, energy and effort.
I mean, I'm all for online community. I personally believe that online community can be just as 'real' as offline. And I feel that stance is becoming more and more validated and accepted by the scientific/psychological community and maybe a few decades (or a century) later, it'll be accepted by the religious community 😉
What I have the problem with is the incredible energy that is displayed by one side attempting to convince the other of their own viewpoint. I just…I think there are other discussions worth having and better things to do with our energy.
Brian Vasil says
I agree Danny…great points.
Vince says
Good call.
I usually end those conversations by asking people to just see how far we can take this. It's all so new and we should try to leverage it in every way possible.
CountryCuban says
Great response Danny. I agree with you, and you brought up some wonderful points!
GordonMarcy says
There continues to be talk about technology making radio waves obsolete. This is causing some to ask questions about the future of traditional Christian teaching/preaching broadcasting.
Then, in what seems like the blink of an eye, God raises up hundreds of churches to stream the gospel online. This is one of the most exciting developments for church communications, since pastors first claimed radio for the gospel nearly 100 years ago.
One day, soon I hope, "churches broadcasting the gospel online" will number in the thousands.
Whatever the outreach is called, while very important, we should first pause to give "thanks." To the pastors and leaders responding to God's commissioning for using new media and technology to reach their cities and the world. To the professionals answering God's call to create and manage these new complex IT systems. To the "first responder" congregations supporting the innovative strategies.
One Internet Campus volunteer called the Internet "the planet's last unexplored mission field."
Pastors, theologians, Bible scholars and others (on this blog and elsewhere) will sort out the question "Is it C(c)hurch?" They will consider all aspects of online ministry and what can be Biblically supported. This is a healthy and important exercise. It will help achieve consensus and perhaps set common standards.
In the meantime, these church technology pioneers need our prayer. They are going into territories where none have journeyed. There also a need, I believe, for more cooperation and collaboration between churches and Christian organizations during this building phase.
Working together will get the platforms built faster and more efficiently.
Gateway Church, Austin, TX, is utilizing an interesting two platform Internet strategy. The Internet Campus is an extension of the church's core ministry, featuring an interactive broadcast of the weekly services. The other, http://theintersection.tv is a missions outreach and is not positioned as "church."
The development of Gateway's Internet ministry, and even ways to fund it, has been chronicled here on ChurchCrunch by Vince Marotte, Internet Pastor.
A directory of online churches, Internet Campuses and some of the technology being used can be found here: http://www.equipthem.info/directory-of-online-chu… The list is managed by David Drinnon, Dir. of IT & Websites at 2nd Baptist Houston. If your church has an online outreach, you can add it to the list.
Thanks for diving into the topic John. North Point Online is modeling excellence in its Internet outreach as well.
John Dyer says
John, have you gotten to read Douglas Estes' SimChurch yet? He's done a good job of laying some foundations for the online church world. I wish that he had spent more time on the biblical and theological issues, but it's certainly more than what I've seen in blog posts and such so far…
Paul Steinbrueck says
John, I'm about halfway through SimChurch hope to have it wrapped up in a couple days. Look forward to discussing it more when I'm done.
Jake Johnson says
The Internet is useful for many ministry activities, but I'm not convinced it should be used as an exclusive environment for a church or church campus. In my ministry the efforts we put forth in online ministry are geared towards creating physical community. I agree that it is an important and hot topic that is causing many to rethink their ecclesiology.
If anyone is interested, I've been doing a blog series on this at Rethinkmission.org. Three of four posts are up, here is the first: http://www.rethinkmission.org/church/in-defense-o…
Yohan Perera says
I agree with Jake. The internet is useful for many ministry activities, and it definitely helps spread the word. But you cannot replace the physical church with a virtual presence. For example, there are some Christians who has to work on Sundays. Instead of finding a way around to attend church some how, they spend hours before God TV (www.god.tv) thinking it helps.
However this is a good topic to talk about as many people have been mislead by the concept of a virtual church. At least we can acknowledge each other.
Tom says
I'm not totally sure how I feel about online church. I mean, I see plenty of awesome benefits, but I also see why others have their problems with it.
One thing that I absolutely love regarding online church is this: it's a way for people that are skeptical/curious/interested in church to slowly see what it's about *on their own terms*. The reason I bring this up is because no matter how contemporary your church is, no matter how cool the worship leader is, no matter how casual your preacher is, /it's still church/.
People are raising their hands in the middle of a song. People are being submerged in water in the name of Jesus Christ. People collection money every Sunday. People are talking about the idea of a God sending His Son to Earth to save us from ourselves. People believe that One Man came back from the dead and ascended into Heaven.
It doesn't matter how relevant you try to make it, it's still church and there are still some very weird (for lack of a better word) aspects to it. This is uncomfortable for a lot people.
Online church is a way for people to take the first steps into something much bigger at a pace that works for them.
Michael Holmes says
THe church is a body of believers. Whether in a building or online. Simple;)
human3rror says
i have not. it's in the queue.