There have been a number of viewpoints from a number of different individuals (such as Mark Driscoll below) that have cropped up about James Cameron’s Avatar.
And since this is a creative community I thought I’d posit the question here: What’s your take on the movie?
Ricky Patrick says
I thought Avatar was a great movie. Have I based my life on it or will my future decisions refer back to the movie? Of course not. Let’s get real. No wonder the world thinks Christians are a bunch of morons. If you’re close enough to the “dark side” that Avatar pushes you over the edge, then you have bigger issues in my opinion. Thanks for posting this video, man. Very interesting!
Stephen says
So, yeah . . .
I haven’t seen Avatar. Yet.
But I guess my first question would be, is Mark (he likes it when I call him Mark) suggesting Cameron and his team are intentionally trying to “convert” the masses? Or are they just under the sway of the general worldliness and demonic activity that is apparently running rampant.
My second thought would be that no work of fiction can truly be demonic, or evil. And I don’t mean that flippantly. God is in the business of redeeming everything and using it for his good. I think there, messages that are good and that are bad wrapped up in Avatar, based on what I know of the plot. I think anything creative can be the start of a great conversation.
I guess that gets at my actual issue with Driscoll on this one: this is not a conversation. It sounds like he is pretty much killing the conversation. He’s drawing a line and setting up a big “Us” and “Them” here. Sure there is a place for prophetic proclamation, but is Avatar really that line?
Ron says
I hear you on your second thought Stephen. How often do we as the church use elements of clearly non Christian films to start a conversation about Christ and salvation. Some of the best images of salvation in film are not very Christian stories. It feels a little two faced to use what we want and then condemn the rest.
adamrshields says
I always find it odd which movies are the line. Avatar in this case. But Da Vinci Code, which was a horrible movie, lots of Christians were encouraged to see so that we could have a discussion with people.
Rife says
Avatar will convert anyone to pagainsm any more than Chronicles of Narnia will convert someone to Christianity.
Rife says
Sorry, that should have been:
Avatar will “NOT” convert anyone to pagainsm any more than Chronicles of Narnia will convert someone to Christianity.
Jon Smith says
While I’m not sure I agree with the tone of Driscoll’s argument about Avatar, I do agree with his premise. Any creative work sends a message. Fiction or no, writers (and other creatives) infer ideologies and philosophies through their work.
I agree that the message James Cameron is sending can be deceptive to people who are not rooted in the Gospel. Demonic? I don’t know. I guess my big point is that philosophy and faith is expressed through creativity, and Christians should definitely be aware.
All that aside, I thought the storyline in general lacked a lot of substance… but it was visually stunning for sure!
Scott Magdalein says
Agree, all creative work carries a message. However, most creative work in the science fiction genre doesn’t carry the same weight as work in the documentary genre.
David says
I don’t understand why everybody is up in arms about Avatar, but let their kids watch Fern Gully and let Dancing with Wolves go right on by.
Jeremy says
wow… those are two “way back” references 8) … but your point is still valid
James Finley says
Though I can understand – and certainly agree – that the religion of Pandora and the Na’vi is classic Paganism, and that there was an overarching message of environmentalism, I do feel that this message is found in the large majority of media & advertising today. If you use anything from Apple, all of it is pushing a “green” agenda. If you look at our government, they are pushing a “green” agenda. It is all over! For me, I looked at the movie – and the world-making within – and took it as *entertainment*. I know that there are people that are letting the movie change them emotionally, philosophically, and even spiritually, but I am not that weak of a man that a movie like this would destroy everything the Bible has taught me! Religious/spiritual commentary aside, Avatar was an amazing visually immersive experience. It is a whole new level of movie-making and entertainment! I don’t go to movies to learn about spirituality and religion, I go for entertainment.
Gerhard says
It is all very nice to classify the things we get served up by the media as entertainment, but that is a very dangerous attitude to adopt and exactly what the devil wants to hear. If you are right and we have to look at it as entertainment, what is wrong with classifying pornography as entertainment or bestiality? It is not as if we are doing it ourselves, we are just looking at it. What’s wrong with that? If you believe that the Bible is the literal Word of God, then you also have to heed its warnings like, eyes are the windows to your soul and not just the window but also the gateway to your soul. Don’t underestimate the power of the devil.
kylereed says
I think I am going to have to disagree with him.
I loved the movie mainly because of the technology and 3d stuff.
And to be honest listening to his defense of him not being a fundamentalist is crazy. Just hearing him brag about all of his “technology” stuff is kind of troubling to me (living by his own standards here) should we have all that stuff?
I just think that is what happens when you get into semantics, and I really feel like his argument is semantics.
Jared says
I agree with you Kyle.. When he talked about having 3 tivo’s and bla bla I find that more troubling then anything I felt from the movie.. There will always be people that disagree with movies. if they did have a godlike character in the movie Christians would still find a way to complain about it… I don’t know anyone that went out and tried to plug their hair into a tree after seeing the movie…
John Saddington says
omg. hilarious.
Aaron Melton says
Wait, did he just acknowledge consumerism (which I agree is a significant problem) and then admit that he had multiple televisions and TiVos?
kylereed says
Yup, totally agree.
Or what about UFC fighting? Once again trying not to be that guy that sits there and throws stones because I am very guilty of things myself, but I just find it interesting that Avatar was chosen to be the thing that is so demonic.
How about acknowledging that it is awesome and the new technology was amazing with a typical love story plot.
Travis says
I haven’t tried plugging into any trees but the horse didn’t appreciate it one bit.
Jared says
hahaha! highfive
Noel Coleman says
OK, now that’s just gross…but funny. What does that say about me?!
Chris says
LOL! uh…. whuh?
peace | dewde
Justin Samsel says
Both.
JayCaruso says
Well, hopefully the discussion here is better than where I first saw commentary about this where it was nothing more than an invitation for people to pile on Mark Driscoll and engage in mockery and name calling.
I’ve seen the movie. I wouldn’t go so fast as Driscoll as to say that it’s “demonic” but it certainly does in its own way, convey James Cameron’s own personal world view which is a kind of post-modern hippie pro-environmental universalistic POV mixed in with a dash of “white guilt.” But the simple solution for that is just to not see the movie.
Driscoll does have a point in a way because too many people these days are undiscerning with regard to what they see in pop culture (the people in Avatar were worshiping a tree!). ‘The Da Vinci Code’ was a perfect example of that. While that book was fiction, there were plenty of people who believed it to be true and only “fiction” in the sense that the characters in the movie were fictional.
In my view, the movie sucked and no “incredible visuals” is going to make that any better.
I’ve said this elsewhere and I’ll say it again: No movie studio over the last 15 years or so has made better quality films than Pixar. For Pixar, it is not just about the “stunning visuals.” They understand the important of writing, characters and the story. If you don’t get those three down, you don’t have a successful movie (successful in the critical sense, not the $$$ sense).
Lori says
I second the comment “But the simple solution for that is just to not see the movie.”
I have not nor do I plan to see it. Also amen to, “too many people these days are undiscerning with regard to what they see in pop culture.”
I respect Discoll, I respect his opinion. Do I agree 100% with everything he says, no. But it does further my resolve on NOT seeing the movie. It would be a waste of my time (aka bring no benefit).
Stuart says
Lori – with all due respect how do you know it would be a waste of your time ? If you don’t see it then you simply don’t know and can’t really justify any stance on the film itself.
Your point about being undiscerning is bang on though. Ultimately it is our choice and we can only take what folks like Mark Driscoll say (I know him not) as one part of our world view in making choices about what we do / don’t do.
Aaron Melton says
I guess this means Harry Potter and Twilight are temporarily off the hook?
Jmayhak says
new target acquired… Quick! Go out and see harry potter before it’s wrong again!
Jeremy says
I can’t watch his vid, but i get the gist from the comments here and elsewhere…
The movie itself was okay at best, but still entertaining… and i actually concentrated on trying to learn from the message that Cameron wanted to convey… because, as a Christ follower, I can learn something about others and another point of view, not so i can convert to it, but understand it. It also helps me see it in other people.
The truth is that most people in our society never think through a worldview or philosophy, so these types of movies ARE going to have an impact on their way of thinking without them realizing it, as are sitcoms, news shows, radio shows, commercials, entertainment blogs, etc etc etc. So, why not embrace it as entertainment AND a learning tool??? It’s easier to combat faulty philosophies if you attack them at the root rather than the result. Avatar is a result, not a root issue.
Ron says
Um. And I thought Avatar was just a movie. Boy was I wrong. I thought it was a movie about a guy who got into something for selfish reasons with little or no regard for people who were being exploited. Who along the way realized the error of his ways and turned it around and saved a bunch of helpless peoples lives. Oops I was wrong.
Sarcasm off.
Perhaps I just read too much SciFi/Fantasy
Noel Coleman says
I think what you do with this movie says more about who you are than it does about what the movie was intending. Let’s get a reality check here. Entertainment does influence people, but it only influences them down a path they are inclined to go down anyway. It acts more as a confirmation than a decision-maker.
Think about it, those of us who lean toward believing in Christ as our savior find confirmation in this movie that people in this world have messed up thinking and don’t know the one true God. But then there will be others who lean toward the “tree-hugging, hippee, pagan-esque” view of life that will see that movie and say, “Yeah, that’s right. I hope everyone sees this movie and hugs trees with me.” Haven’t we all had experiences where we go through something with some one and they get something completely different from it?
So to say that this movie is demonic or inspired misses the whole point. What we should be asking ourselves is how can I use this movie to highlight the truth and glory of the one true God? How about you go see that movie with some one that may not share our faith or be solid in their thinking and use it to engage them in a good conversation? (If you can actually have a conversation that isn’t just calling something “demonic.”) IE, use the world’s own content to reveal Jesus Christ to people. After all, isn’t this the “relevance” our churches have been preaching for the last 10 years?
Cody Stauffer says
The movie is intended to be a metaphor, and as such, you can read a lot into it, really whatever you want. In fact, I know many Christians who take it as pro-Christian ideology. For example, the Nav’i teach about a second birth- as do evangelicals. The Nav’i believe one can personally communicate with their deity, as do the majority of Protestants. The Bible talks about putting off the old man and putting on the new- exactly what the Marine does through request to the deity. So you see, it is a metaphor and like all good metaphors, many different truths and views can be found. My stance is that what you want to see in a good metaphor reveals far more about you than the actual metaphor or even creator of the metaphor. Mark Driscoll has a classic combative stance toward anyone who doesn’t agree with him 100%, and that shows up in his interpretation of metaphors like this one in Avatar and the one in “The Shack.” Thus, the metaphor does its job, revealing the heart of the viewer.
Cody Stauffer says
Oh, and, did he miss the part where they DID need the deity to come and save them? He might have gotten upset and left before that part…
Adam Shields says
This is part of Driscoll’s MO. I appreciate many things about him; his seriousness about scripture, his real desire to reach people, etc. But there have been a number of cases when he has given similar responses to cultural items without a lot of thought (or at least any desire to think about something from more than one view point), and sometimes without even reading/watching them. I don’t want to pile on Driscoll, but I am not sure I have ever agreed with him on media criticism. For Driscoll it is either good or bad and that is that. He is ok with Mixed Martial Arts and two guys beating one another to a pulp, he’s not ok with thinking about an alternative world where the creatures have a physical connection to one another through the database/network that is their world. I would reverse those two, but that is just me.
bman says
I kind of felt inspired at the end to missions… but it is about paganism… but, I kind of hate when people try to make movies something they aren’t. Avatar was a movie to watch. To let your brain melt and eyes dance. Everything else about the movie is pretty dumb… So, why try to make anything out of it other than to ride the success of something else and demonize a perfectly good mind-numbing movie?
I say everyone should just let it ride. It’s just a movie.
bman says
I’m also upset about Cameron using “Avatar” as the title when “Avatar: The Last Airbender” is being made shortly after… bummer.
Nick Shoemaker says
…and the Satanic Bible is just a book.
“Just a…” anything is a very dangerous statement. Jesus was just a good teacher. Pornography is just a graphic art form.
Fences aren’t made for sittin’ on for long.
dannyjbixby says
I still haven’t seen it…because I’m pretty lame.
But since Mark Driscoll is so vehemently against it, I can imagine I would enjoy it a great deal.
Brian N. says
I think Paul was a great example (and props to my sister for finding this) of how Christians should interact with culture.
He said in Athens, speaking to Epicureans and Stoics, “As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring… ” (Acts 17) The Apostle paul, though distressed by their false gods uses art and culture to reason with them about the truth of the Gospel.
He certainly doesn’t start condemning their art as demonic and satanic. Throughout the NT Paul and others clearly hold those outside the Church (and their culture) to a different standard.
Once James Cameron starts coming to my church, I’ll have a problem with his movies… but we’ll talk about Titanic first.
Nate Beaird says
I’ll just post part of what I wrote about it after I saw it:
It seems everything on this planet, plants, trees, animals, and “the people” are all connected. They all had a greater understanding of something larger than themselves, a common creator. An iridescent connection of commonly-purposed, and created lives.
The movie didn’t turn me into an environmentalist. It only awakened something that I used to think about earnestly. I used to think about the mystic side of God. The supernatural. The unexplainable. The belief that there is a power greater than our own, and that it stirs the cosmos and always points back to redemption.
The Bible says “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.” It says that even if we’re quiet, the stones will cry out in praise to God! When Ezekiel stood in a valley of bones, God brought them to life to serve as his vast army. When Noah built the Arc, God brought animals of all kinds. He just led them there.
It’s hard for me to believe that some people believe in God, Jesus, and The Bible… but don’t believe the infallible word of God in it’s entirety. It’s easy for the mystics, like me. It’s easy for us to trust what God’s written as truth, and to see what others can’t, or choose not to see in everyday life. There is a mysterious side to God, but maybe less of a mystery to us if we bothered to pay attention.
The movie is not labeled as a “Christian” movie, nor does it ever mention Jesus’ story of redemption (openly), but if you pay attention– you’ll see the thing that binds every living thing. The mystic truth that we are all bound together through Christ, through God’s plan. An “An iridescent connection of commonly-purposed, and created lives,” if you will. Yet another way media has reminded me of God’s plan.
Choose to see it… and I’m not just talking about the movie.
Nick Shoemaker says
I liked the movie. Yes the story was weak-sauce.
And I agree with Driscoll. It is blatant paganism.
As I watched it, I remember seeing Abba in it. I was moved to misty eyes, not by the story or stunning visual presentation, but by the Glory reflected in it. I’m thankful for the creativity given to those that made the film, because it is a glimpse of our Creator.
Is it too far to call the movie demonic? I don’t think so. It attempts to take glory from God- this is Satan. When something is labeled demonic our minds instantly race to The Exorcist , rather than to the definition of the term. Jesus healed a demoniac- a man whose body was being used a tool of Satan.
Fine. Split hairs over theology and world-view. But the simple fact remains that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Not even Avatar.
Kendall Conner says
I must admit that I used to be a faithful Christian.
That is…before I saw Avatar. It was so enlightening to me. It really made me aware of the beauty that is around us each and everyday. I was able to finally connect with the plants and animals around my home. I have noticed that since I saw Avatar, I have become so much closer to my horses. How are my houseplants, you ask? They have grown twice their size since I have began quoting the movie to them. Why would I need any other religion – clearly the people of Pandora had it all figured out.
Oh, wait. JUST KIDDING! I have not changed any of my theology because of this film. If anything, it inspired me to be more creative for Jesus and the Church.
Get real, dude.
Ileana Ortiz says
Avatar was a movie. A technologically game-changing one at that. That’s all it is. That’s all it was.
If he was offended by Avatar, maybe next week’s message will be on Pocahontas?
Ileana Ortiz says
Also, I kind of found it ironic when he docked Avatar for not wanting to develop culture or progress, when he so openly is not a fan of Internet Campuses, and a lot of other technological advances.
Just my observation.
PhillipGibb says
wow, that’s quite a slating of the film – calling it demonic. But why then say “Go see it for yourselves”, I certainly would not encourage people to see a demonic film. But there in lies the big deception, that it does not appear overtly demonic. Then again, I find it hard to agree – even that I am a Christian – that this film was more than pure commercialism at it’s best.
Aihwa says
The church is very, afraid of Avatar. I don’t get it.
Are you afraid the people are starting to think for themselves rather than follow you?