Thomas McKenzie wrote a thought provoking post on worship services and rock concerts.
He said,
“When rock concerts and worship services are indistinguishable, then we’re of this world, not just in it.”
Ouch.
Drawing Lines & Raising Questions
Where do you think the line is drawn between rock concerts and worship services?
McKenzie makes several good points. It’s a great read. In fact, I would go as far to say that his points should be considered by every worship leader in the church. Considering the history of worship leaders, primarily the first one worship leader ever, I think it’s prudent to take some extra care and safeguard one’s self.
McKenzie asks some probing questions:
- “If you are in a room that has been darkened with all the lights on a single person or small group, if you can only hear them and no one else, if one person’s face looks down on everyone from a tall screen, whom are you meant to worship?”
- “When you sing praise to God, why isn’t your voice good enough?”
- “Why does your voice have to be drowned out by a sound system?”
- “Why can’t you hear your neighbor sing?”
- “Why is it necessary to have a close up look at the preacher or singer on a giant video screen?”
Good questions, right?
Church Tech & Creative Arts
As we explore Church tech and creative arts in the Church on ChurchMag, we are always pushing and pushing to take things further and further. We want to do everything with excellence and we want to make our Father proud as we pour our heart and passion into everything we do. That being said, I think it’s also important that we don’t forget what worship is all about.
As Thomas McKenzie closes in his blog post,
“Rock concerts are designed to give you an emotional experience. Everything works together to entertain you. They want to make you feel good, to feel euphoric. You should have fun, and you should want to buy more product. Worship of the Christian God is not about fun, good feelings, entertainment, or euphoria. Worship is laying down our lives, honoring the God who died for us, and receiving his grace. That has nothing to do with rock concerts.”
This should be sobering for those of us that may have taken corporate worship where it doesn’t belong, and a reminder to the rest of us that we need to keep our eyes on Him.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this, where is the line drawn?
Joanna says
Its a hard line to draw, especially at events like youth rallies where some of the bands are definitely doing a concert and some are trying to lead worship.
One aspect of this topic I’ve struggled with is the idea of touring worship bands. I recently saw a popular worship band post on their facebook page that they were touring internationally. The places they were going were ones I very much doubt have a Christian musician shortage. Now, I don’t doubt the band’s good intentions and I could see the merits of worship bands visiting communities without the resources to do much themselves to bless and encourage them. But in places with more than enough skilled worship leaders, what exactly are we hoping to achieve by getting a band from overseas/interstate that a local worship leader cannot? If it is not ultimately about the band, why go to a lot of expense to bring in a touring worship band?
Eric Dye says
Excellent points.
jason says
My pastor always says worship is not what you get but what you bring. It doesn’t matter what kind of music is playing or how loud or whether they use a fancy lighting system; it just matters what we bring with our hearts. Some of the coolest worhip experiences I’ve ever had happened at some very un-churchlike places.
Eric Dye says
So then why all the extra?
Jeffrey says
I think it’s ok to worship in different ways and to use the talents God has gifted us with to glorify him and edify the body. Some people are good at light design, some people are good at playing U2 style music, some people excel at singing, some at teaching, some at writing blogs. For anyone to say that one way is wrong and one is right without scripture to reinforce their opinion runs the risk of minimizing someone talents. I think worship styles are personal preference, and as long as worship is the overflowing of love towards God then we aught to encourage it; lights or no lights, hymns or hip-hop, 98db or 20db.
Ana says
The bible teaches how to worship and if we go by what we think, by what we feel then..we’re already lost. It’s what Gid wants, not what we want. The bible had many examples of what happens when things are done by personal thoughts and feelings vs. what God wants.
JH says
I heard a pastor describe worship as, “a proper reaction to the awesomeness of God” to which I agree. The bible says, “if you love me, obey my commandments” at face value this command requires no emotion, but “if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal”
When you put “line upon line and precept upon precept” you understand that God wants you to obey Him because you love Him, because you have an overflow of emotion in reaction to who he is. My least favorite thing about these articles and the following comments is the lack of biblical references, if you have a point and can’t make it through the word of God then your point is your own, which is useless. If I’m wrong, don’t simply tell me I’m wrong, teach me (with the Bible) so I can line up my will with His. This is how you love your brothers and sisters.
Cjay says
Careful… “It is not what goes into the body that defiles, but what comes out of it”
Robert says
Let’s not forget the Bible doesn’t even say we have to go to church. The apostles of Christ got together once a week to talk about Christ and remember all he said. We are suppose to talk about the Kingdom to come…..
Jh says
2 things going on with that comment; 1) it’s off subject, not sure how someone could go from worship style to church requirement unless that wanted to start an arguement. 2) God does require us to “not forage the gathering together of believers” (aka church). I’m not going to debate this, but for the sake of young Christians, it needed to be said.
Jh says
2 things going on with that comment; 1) it’s off subject, not sure how someone could go from worship style to church requirement unless they wanted to start an arguement. 2) God does require us to “not forsake the gathering together of believers” (aka church). I’m not going to debate this, but for the sake of young Christians, it needed to be said.
Larry says
stupid, 98 db will cause you to loose your hearing
Tracy says
Thank you. I ran not walked out of church last Sunday. My hearing is not what God wants me to destroy by listening to loud, bad singing and poor choice of monotonous, same sounding, hard to sing songs so that the singer can go off like Mariah Carey. I can’t even think. I don’t have to stand up hoot and holler, clap, and wave to connect with God. It bugs me to hear and see this in church. It’s distracting and reminds me of a sporting event. I’m not there to praise musicians, clap and hoot every time the church campus is mentioned or visiting preachers that shout their sermon at the congregation. No thank you. My parents are dead and I won’t be shouted at by anyone, especially in church.
Bill says
Also if you have to where ear plugs in church the music is definitely to loud. I would find another church. That’s what I did. There is no reason to play the music that loud.
KGS says
I started attending a UPC back in the early 80’s. I was a youth back then. There was just a song leader, a piano and an organ. The voices of the saints were not drowned out by the music. We all sang together in one accord the praises of our Lord and Savior. It was a beautiful worship service. I have watched worship service change throughout the years bringing in drums, guitars, bass guitars with stacked amps like at a rock concert several electric keyboards, horns and a “praise team” on mics. No longer could I hear the voices of the saints singing to the Lord. Eventually the music got so loud, I couldn’t sit in the sanctuary without ear plugs.
I asked the pastor’s wife why was the music so loud? She answered that we had to draw in the young people. I responded by saying are you telling me that the Word of God has lost its power and it can no longer reach young people? She couldn’t answer me.
Ronnie sturchio says
If I want to go to a concert and see performers, I’ll buy a ticket. I have come to hate these big performances in my church – in fact it’s driving me away. And I am not alone, many others from other churches are feeling the same. Every Sunday, there are 4-5 “stars ” doing their performance. I don’t feel Gods presence while in church. I can get in my car and listen to the real recording artists who are better and just skip church. You can have these “contemporary” services with the “worship teams”. I’ll stay home and have already begun to stay home.
Tammy says
I recently visited a non dominational church, because I felt something was missing from my life. I very much wanted to connect and worship with other Christians. The adults were very friendly, I was lead into a dark auditorium with a band on stage, and the aplyfiers were load and the screen would briefly show different people reading scripture, then the concert was playing loud guitars and singing unryming lyrics. It seems is all about the YOUTH, today. I just want to find a simple religion with a real message of hope from a real pastor and old hymns sang by real people. Give me Andy Griffith old time religion,.
I am not of this world, nor do I want to be. All the people of today are the romans of yesterday, yelling, give me circus and bread. And we all know what happened to Rome.
Raoul Snyman says
As a former worship team leader this resonates so much with me. I was almost literally shouting, “YES! YES! YES!” through the entire post.
It’s funny, some of the churches I have been to have definitely been rock concerts, while some of the rock concerts have ended up more like church.
Eric Dye says
True story.
Matt says
These kinds of posts always seem to draw out the dividing lines of opinions of “correct” and “incorrect” ways of corporate worship. The bottom line is that if you are uniquely called to lead in any capacity in a church, then there is only ONE thing to consider for how you approach the programming of your corporate service. Motivation.
If the mission of the local church is to go out and make a difference, to reach people with the life changing message of the Gospel, so that they would be forever transformed; and that their lives would be different for all eternity, then that is exactly what every Creative Church Leader should be motivated to do. Your greatest motivation is to get on the field, get your uniform dirty, and be the hands and feet of Christ by reaching people with the Gospel. Your entire team should CLEARLY understand that if this is NOT your greatest motivation, then eventually you’ll go do something else anyways.
So if you know WHY you do what you do, then does it REALLY matter what it looks like? Do you know WHY you use a dark room? Do you know why you have colored lights? 100+db levels of sound? Motion graphics & images in worship? haze? Seriously…haze. Do you know WHY you use haze with your lights in worship? I know why we do.
If you as a Creative Leader and your Lead Pastor can’t explain why you do what you do, then there could be differing motivations of what you are going after each Sunday.
If a rock concert style is really incorrect, then what does a correct way of worship look like? Should there be a leader? I know a church here in the Atlanta area that does worship in-the-round, where everyone faces the center of the room, including the band. People are looking at the backs of the band members. Everyone’s eyes are fixated on a huge, lit cross hanging in the center of the room? Is this correct? A.W Tozer would call this idolatry. What should it look like in London, England? Chengdu, China? A village in India?
The way worship looks on the outside is nothing more than a creative expression of the gospel in the local church for the purposes of encouraging and motivating those gathered to cherish and proclaim the truth of Christ. The way it all looks on the inside of an individual heart is what God is really concerned with.
Eric Dye says
True, but not entirely.
There are inappropriate ways of corporate worship. King David danced before God butt-naked, but that wouldn’t be appropriate in a corporate worship setting—even though his heart was were it needed to be.
Matt Solik says
playing a certain style of music is a church’s strategic approach to ministry. I think we can agree that leading worship in the nude would not be a wise approach to ministry. Yet, David said I’ll become even more undignified than this. He didn’t care how inappropriate it was. Scripture never says The Lord was pleased with this act, but it does say that David was a man after God’s own heart.
The Devil’s instrument, the organ was first used in churches in the year 800, but was’nt widely accepted in church until the 13th Century. Style of music in church has been a debate since the beginning of time, and it will continue to be for as long as any of us are alive. Instead of debating it, we should be celebrating it’s diversity and leading the church toward a personal, passionate, undignified relationship with Him.
Eric Dye says
Yes, but if we’re walking in idolatry, we need to recognize it and correct our course. I personally don’t think worship is “wide-open” and anything is allowable.
Krista says
Be careful about criticizing and saying what is right and wrong. When David danced (and yes, ended up exposing himself), he was praising the Lord, he did not intend to expose himself, and when Michal criticized him the Lord caused her to be barren the rest of her life. Tread lightly when judging motives or even outcomes (as in David’s case) because we cannot see the heart as God can.
Shelby says
Absolutely, So as I am reading this my jaw is literally open. I can see why people are attracted to the less judgmental atmosphere of these churches. The World has become extremely visual, from kids toys to PlayStations & Xboxes. Then as teenagers their games are brighter & they are using technology at school also.
I have heard your rebuttals asking why the extras? Why not? I’ve watched many saved at both places.
I can’t see kids pulling into High School with hymnal music but Big Daddy Weave or Hillsong United that I have seen happen. They are definitely bringing our young people in, and teaching them instead of preaching At them. James chapter 3 speaks to the fact that as Teachers we Will be judged more harshly by God. Very good bible study.
You know when I was a teenager certain ppl were up in arms over the likes of Amy Grant, now she’s acceptable. If for No other reason than that it attracts our young people and makes them curious instead of boring them and making them dread going.
William Corgnell says
Why do you need all the smoke and the lights to worship God in song and music? The Bible says not to conform to this world, are these not worldly things we add into our worship, shutting off lights and focusing in on just the worship team is that not idolizing those on stage instead of idolizing God through song. I have no issue about the music changing what I have issue with is the disrespect and less consideration toward those in the church that our the elders and mentors of the church. We are to look to them for wisdom and strength but if we drive them away because we want to cater to a younger generation then are we really doing the church any good. You can play to the younger generation but there is a line we need to consider when it comes to the older generation in the church. When people in church have to put ear plugs in to listen to the praise and worship then the experience of worshiping is lost.
KGS says
King David removed his kingly robes, humbling himself and danced before the Lord in a linen ephod. He wasn’t butt-naked. He was dancing and rejoicing because the Ark was being returned to Jerusalem, not during a church service.
Ronnie sturchio says
I feel that the worship team are all wannabe rock stars and it’s not about Christ.
JH says
You’re judging a persons heart without even knowing them. I’m a worship leader and I’m not a wanna be rock star.
John says
Christ’s disciples once complained to him about Redeemer wannabes who were also doing work in God’s name. Christ’s response was to leave them alone as they were bringing people to the Father.
Though I have not been able to adjust to “theater church”, I know people are being included in God’s earthly family through this service medium. I still prefer the family-style “Old time religion”, and I know it still exists somewhere; I’ll find it, I’m sure. I guess that, like Christ, we should look at the result and not the method. CH__ __CH What’s missing?
Matt Brown says
This is a hard subject to touch because people worship is all different ways from a media standpoint we always want more lights and more haze and more show because we feel it’s our way to show our art or worship, but I take a different view point for me it’s all about what we are doing to bring people into worship. Media should be used as a tool to “enhance” worship not distract us from God and the object of our worship. if I am doing something to distract or take away from worshiping God I have failed. I purposely choose my media (in all forms) to create an atmosphere of worship and use the arts to FOCUS our Worship.
— Media Pastor
Eric Dye says
What do you mean by “enhance”? I’ve heard that many times before, and there’s something about it that doesn’t set well with me. What does that say about worship without these things? Is it less enhanced? Do we become too reliant on it?
As for using media to create an atmosphere of worship and focus I appreciate, but does it make us lazy in the end? How about the atmosphere of a jail cell?
Gangai Victor says
I would use the word ‘support’ instead. Things that faciliate the church to offer worship should be encouraged.
It’s when the focus switches from God to the acts and tools of worship that ‘worship’ is reduced to a show/performance.
BTW, this is a great post, very thought provoking. These are essential questions every worship ministry should be asking.
Eric Dye says
Very nice. ‘Support’ is much better. 🙂
Ronnie sturchio says
Media pastor – really? It’s a show and I have never got anything from those types of service. Give me a choir and strong congregation singing – we don’t need stars on a stage
JH says
And the end of the day, you don’t like it. And that’s 100% ok, but some people do like it and that’s 100% ok. Now go and make disciples.
Eric J says
My replies are with the dashes, i tried to bold them but i’m not sure if Church Mag accepts html comments.
“If you are in a room that has been darkened with all the lights on a single person or small group, if you can only hear them and no one else, if one person’s face looks down on everyone from a tall screen, whom are you meant to worship?”
– Sounds Scarry!
“When you sing praise to God, why isn’t your voice good enough?”
– Some people have insecurities about their ability to sing, God might love me no matter what but past hurts can get in the way of feeling free enough to sing. I’ve had friends who were told by their church choir director to just mouth the words but not actually sing when they were in kids choir, that damaged their ability to worship for years!
“Why does your voice have to be drowned out by a sound system?”
– So i can focus on praising God and not worry about how i sound.
“Why can’t you hear your neighbor sing?”
– Because they are a distraction!
“Why is it necessary to have a close up look at the preacher or singer on a giant video screen?”
– Not sure about this one, perhaps it is because the room it setup in a way that you cannot see the stage easily?
jake says
If other people are a distraction, why go to church at all? Why not just listen to albums and podcasts?
Gathered Worship isn’t about just you and God, it’s about us and God.
Eric J says
I’m just answering the question not trying to start a fight.
Ronnie sturchio says
I so agree
Jeremy says
I have seen sides of idolatry and ego’s on the stage and usually they leave soon after, but as long as the worship is God-centric I don’t think we should be throwing stones at how one another chooses to worship. We have enough to struggle through as Christians in our world without starting in-fighting with my worship is better than your worship because, that’s coming from the wrong place and does nobody any good. It’s not positive.
I don’t know, I think it’s just like how people learn differently, some need to do, some need a mentor, some need to push head long into a task to learn it…so it is also how people worship “Differently”.
There isn’t any one way as long as God is our focus. Some of the ‘Rock Concert’ Church’s do this as they can more easily reach the lost in that area by using the ‘worship’ to bring them in, they’ve come to listen to the awesomely creative worship team and oh by the way here’s an awesome message of salvation and another side of worship.
I’ve been to choir churches, I’ve been to acoustic only churches, I’ve been to rock concerts churches in my life and I think they all are valid and proper for the audiences they are trying to reach.
Eric Dye says
Good thoughts, Jeremy. 🙂
Chandos says
This this this! I completely agree.
One of my favorite quotes fits nicely, I think.
“It is not what a man does that determines whether his work is sacred or secular, it is why he does it.” -AW Tozer
Darren says
The sons of aaron worshipped the way they wanted to but it was not what God approved of and they were destroyed by fire.
Roberts says
…
Anita Brady says
I think this issue goes far beyond the type of music in a church setting. Here in Australia, there is a preponderance of a certain type of church environment which has either been layered onto what is already there or purpose built. I am referring to the all-black environment. I used to go to an Assemblies of God pentecostal church. It was one of the mega churches of its day. In those days, churches were often purpose built to enclose thousands of people. Since the pentecostal/charismatic churches had the greatest growth during the eighties, it was appropriate to house them in larger auditoriums. Consequently, there was seating shaped upward in a theatre style, and very large stages big enough for orchestras and sound systems. There was loud music for sure, it was contemporary music for sure, but it was not head thumpingly, bass dominated, emotionly overloaded rock concert material. AND you were able to hear yourself and others sing. In every part of the auditorium
Then in the late nineties and early 21st century we began to see the blackening of these venues. The church I went to was taken over by Hillsong. Everything changed. You can talk to the stalwart members of this church and they will tell you that people were trodden on in the merger. If you can call it that. The windows were blackened, the music and the worship ‘style’ changed, the preaching mirrored that of the Sydney parent church. We went to another church this morning which is an AOG church and was a contemporary of the church I used to attend. It has built a new venue because the old one burned down. (I am not making any valued judgement here, I am just saying.) The new venue is a purpose built rock stadium. It has black carpet, black seating, black stage, black walls, huge sound system, huge video screens, and at least six greeters on every entrance to the venue. It is huge, and frankly, comes across with the maximum effect of style over substance. We did not feel welcomed, we felt overwhelmed. We walked out before the meeting started mainly for the reasons stated above.
We wanted to worship God, we wanted to hear ourselves sing, we wanted to be able to hear others sing, we didn’t want to have to compete with the singers up the front. Thirty years ago, worship leaders did just that, they were not the talent, they were there to encourage everybody else to get involved. What I see now are people who are so far removed from the congregation that people switch off. I have seen it time and time again. It comes to a place of ‘what’s the point’ because they can’t hear themselves or anybody else. You either passively watch, or you try and participate, but either way, your contribution is not being felt by you or anybody else. It would be just as effective to stay at home and put on a dvd.
I believe these changes in worship style in pentecostal churches are not just superficial. They represent a much deeper and spiritual change and I don’t believe this change is a good one.
But if you simply want to stick to superficial issues, the colour black is a pretty poor representation of God who dwells in unapproachable light. Black in my book represents evil and sin. Since when did we stop creating our church environments in the style of former christians throughout the ages. Churches used to be built and decorated with a very much symbolic meaning for each and every element. If you want to blacken the church in order to heighten the ‘worship’, then you are worshipping the wrong thing.
Kevin J says
Would that include the black print you’re typing in? Maybe the cover of a bible or the black ink used to print the words God and Jesus in your bible?
Ronnie sturchio says
Again I agree.
George Servanis says
Anita, your so right, I am based in Melbourne and sent the exact same thing happening down here, since when is our God of darkness with loud screeching music.
This is clearly not worship of our almighty father, these people , denominations are delusional with a club type mentality.
Ronnie sturchio says
Yep
thor says
Very good observations. I am beginning to dislike the settings of this kind of worship. Worship leaders wearing hats on stage, really conscious of their looks, showing their tatoos, dim lights, really load music that most people don’t know, songs that does not even mention Jesus or God.. I hope we are not cruising to the wide road that leads to destruction.
Eric Dye says
I certainly hope not.
Brad says
I’ve had this thought brewing in me for the past several months… and the more I attend corporate worship services, the louder it gets in my head. “Why the stage??” Why does practically every single worship service that I ever attend nowadays include a stage, fancy lights, and if the worship techie’s are REALLY serious about setting the right mood, smoke machines? Whether the musicians are all standing 1 foot or 8 feet higher than the rest of the congregation… or whether the stage is illuminated with an excessive amount of colorful lights or even just a few… WHY? Why has it become the church’s goal to stimulate its members with all the elements of a rock show (minus the alcohol and crowd surfing) when they’ve come to gather on Sunday morning for a much higher purpose than to be entertained?
My suggestion?
Get rid of the stage (and if that seems too extreme, place the band in the back of the room and have them face the same direction as everyone else)… do away with the spinny twirly colorful lights… ELIMINATE ALL SMOKE MACHINES… and give members the chance to disengage their senses for just 45 minutes and to focus their hearts on what they’ve really come to do, which is WORSHIP GOD.
Brad says
(Continued from previous comment).
I think the simple changes I’m suggesting would not only benefit the ordinary church goer of a congregation, but would also assist the worship leaders in using their gifts to glorify GOD rather than themselves… placing the musicians in the back of the room and out of everyone’s direct view would relieve them of any pressure to “perform” for their congregations (a pressure which I assume most, if not all, worship leaders encounter on a pretty regular basis).
One might argue that “To effectively lead their congregations in worship, the musicians must always be front and center, in plain view of the people they’re leading,” but I completely disagree. If and when people’s eyes are open during a worship service, it’s most likely for one of two reasons. Either 1. they’re passively standing/sitting at their seat and taking in all the wonderful scenery and action happening at the front of the room (the pretty lights, the musicians strumming at their instruments, etc.), or 2, they’re glancing up at the projector screen in order to read and sing along to the song that’s being played. In addition, music played from the back of the room can be heard just as well by the congregation as music played from the front of the room, especially if it’s being transmitted through a sound system (which I assume is fairly common among most medium to large church facilities nowadays). Point being, there’s no real advantage to having the worship band play at the front of the room, whether it be for visual or audio purposes.
Kevin J says
I’m a worship music leader, and I lead in a small home group and have led onstage as well.
To begin with, God is MUCH bigger, more eclectic, and vast in method and style than any of our small boxes allow. He has people of all different shapes, sizes and personalities, and He allows for and works through multitudes of styles of worship and praise. Some praise Him in jungles with congas and bare breasts; some praise Him a cappella in small settings; some praise Him with an acoustic guitar wearing shorts and flip-flops; some praise Him loudly with gospel funk and tambourines, dancing around the room; some praise Him solemnly with chants and Latin musings; some praise Him with full choir and orchestra to lead; some praise Him with complex compositions and deep, profound lyrics; some praise Him with simple chords, repetitive phrases and hand claps; some praise Him with a banjo and and a fiddle; some praise Him with loud guitars and drums; some praise Him with timbales and steel drums on the beach before the pastor gives the message in surfer shorts; some praise Him with full productions and lights and effects; some praise Him with minimalism and poetry; some praise Him in white robes and Sunday best; some praise Him in jeans and biker jackets; some praise him in black attire (heaven forbid!); some praise Him with mohawks and nose rings; some praise Him in gypsy-like caravans in the wilderness; some praise him in white churches with stained glass; some praise him in movie theaters or warehouses; some praise him quietly in home churches to avoid prison or death; some praise him loudly from the rooftops or front yards before home church begins in view of the neighborhood. Praise The Lord!
I could not disagree more with this quote by McKenzie;
“When rock concerts and worship services are indistinguishable, then we’re of this world, not just in it.”
Meaning in style? Because there’s a HUGE difference spiritually regardless of music or production style! At a rock concert (not sure why “rock” is pointed out versus orchestra or easy listening, as if those music forms are less sinful) you are not giving praise and thanks to a holy Creator and a redeeming Lord, but rather watching someone sing about faithless and worldly topics devoid of Christ in most cases. THAT’s being “of the world”. Much of the world dresses in suits and ties to go out and make their money to spend on idols like sex, cars, luxuries, etc. So is wearing a suit and tie in church then being “of the world and not just in it”?
In regard to the other points – a pastor or worship group on a stage with house lights dimmed is for focus. God is not the God of confusion. Seeing ones expressions, demeanor, hand and mouth movements are all part of a verbal or musical communication. Communication can be accomplished without the visual, but the visual always enhances. In larger rooms big screens facilitate delivery of the visual at a distance. Dimmed house lights reduce the distraction of activity around you and keep you focused to the front where the group of people specifically called to lead others into unity with the Spirit in intimate praise and worship of God can lead you in this manner. The comment “If one person’s face looks down on you from a tall screen” carries the connotation of arrogance or pride with regard to the person on the screen. Actually, what I see on the screen at my church are people in love with Jesus looking up to Him and singing beautiful praises to Him. It helps me to focus and engage in worship when I see my brothers and sisters doing so. And their expressions of obvious love for God when seen close up on camera are an encouragement and beauty to me. I am not worshipping any person, nor do I worship man, but God. If a person is not encouraged in the worship of Jesus in this type of setting they should attend another church which praises in a manner more befitting to them, rather than judging the hearts and motives of the leaders and congregants at that church. I, for one, am drawn closer to God in such a setting.
This idea that musical worship is just an operation to honor God devoid of emotion is ridiculous. It is an intimate interaction between God and the people he loves. God fills the praises of his people. Thankfulness is not emotionless, and neither is joy — both of which are required in worship.
We have a fairly loud system at our church, but in my opinion they operate it a bit too quietly. I can engage better when the music fills the room, and it encourages louder singing as well. It’s not just about voices. The music itself is a praise unto The Lord, and if I can’t hear a guitar or keyboard well enough I certainly am distracted if Martha’s voice is drowning it out. Turn it up, sound guy! I hear my voice perfectly fine, but love to hear the beautiful voice of a skilled and talented female vocalist (or male) leading me in that praise.
If there were no screens or good volume level my questions would be: “Why must I squint to see the tiny figure on stage?”
“Why can’t I hear the music from way back here so I can join the praises too?”
Praise the Lord!
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heaven! Praise him for his mighty works;
praise his unequaled greatness! Praise him with a blast of the ram’s horn;
praise him with the lyre and harp! Praise him with the tambourine and dancing;
praise him with strings and flutes! Praise him with a clash of cymbals;
praise him with loud clanging cymbals.
Let everything that breathes sing praises to the Lord!
Praise the Lord!
Sara59 says
Silence is golden for worship. Just because “make a joyful noise” is in the bible doesn’t mean the whole service has to have some kind of sound going on, whether it be singing, instruments, or talking. I think everyone is afraid of the absence of noise anymore. Also I don’t believe God is deaf, do we really need people yelling Praise God or Thank you Lord, louder and louder and louder? Sheesh! My pastor won’t allow even a second of quiet. He also says stuff like, “Let’s praise the Lord for water!! Did you ever think about water?!! How great it is to have water?!!” No I never thought about that because I am so dull in the head. Why yes, having water is pretty great unless it’s flooding your home or washing away your family. Ugh!
Adam says
I work in a refugee camp for people from Myanmar. Many of the refugees are Christians, and I’ve had the pleasure of attending Church with them. It amazes me how enraptured they are with worship with one acoustic guitar and simply the power of their voices. Going back home, I feel uncomfortable with the “corporate worship” set up thinking how much better the money for all that equipment could be spent. Just as there should be more income equality between the rich and poor in America, Christians can redistribute some of that wealth with their brothers and sisters around the world.
H says
I stumbled across this after I noticed my cousin, who is a pastor’s wife, has made mention of how worship is more like a concert and it’s not OK. I grew up in a traditional church and would sing hymns with a piano and organ. My husband, a man who did not grow up in the church but became a christian as a teenager, has a passion for playing the guitar, especially electric. I used to think electric guitars were more “evil” and they did not belong in the church. He taught me that it is not the electric guitar’s fault, it’s just an instrument and people can choose what they do with it. God never told us that “loud” instruments were bad, that we have to use piano or organ, that we have to read our songs from a book instead of project it on a screen. As technologies change, the style can change. You might think, “the church is sacred and should not change with the secular world.” I don’t agree. Yes, what is taught from the bible should not be changed but how it applies to the secular world should. If you start to ask, “why is the church not growing?” it might be time to ask, “how are the biblical truths we’re teaching applying to the real world?” It’s time to stop living in the past. At one time, organs were new and not accepted. At one time no one had hymnals. At the times of change, many people do not want to accept the change. I’m not saying people should stop using organs and hymnals. I just say, allow people to worship quietly, loudly, with their voices, with an instrument as they choose, etc. as long as it doesn’t go against biblical truths. It’s the heart that matters. I have found my non-denominational, bible-believing, loud band church to be filled with some of the most non-judgmental, loving, helpful, and genuine people I have met in my entire Christian life.
ursus says
As long as it is all about Jesus then it hardly matters. I would rather people be at a Jesus Culture or Hillsong “rock concert” than at some secular concert.
Programmer says
Over two decades ago, I came in late to Sunday service. (Bus was late.) I sat in a different place than before, and I saw what a production that particular church was. I left, never to return. I suspected as much, when I accidental walked upon a rehearsal earlier that week. The bus was late by God’s Will, and He showed me what’s wrong here.
I am also a student of history, and this rock concert junk was a problem that the medieval church had, too, with the Sunday services being rehersed all week long. Protestants won’t talk about it anymore, but it’s one of the reasons that led to the Protestant Reformation. Study the writings of the early Protestants, and discover how against sing to the Lord they were. Under the strictest laws of the Old Testament, singing to the Lord is forbidden. Do deep research on this subject. There’s a reason hymnals originate during the following decades after Luther and Calvin, and around the time of Tyndale.
Jeff H says
If it’s sinful, what’s the sin. Name it. Show us the verse, and don’t assume you know the hearts of the people participating.
Darren says
The God we serve needs no additives. In complete silence He can hear our hearts cry out. If we were all deaf and blind and outside in a field God will show up if we truly seek him and nothing else will matter.
JH says
I 100% agree. We can worship God in Silence, but yet he calls us to worship together with a “joyful noise” and with a “new song”. I like the old stuff but prefer the new, the new stuff. I’m so tired of people, who have no biblical basis, telling me how to worship. It’s it enough that I am worshiping?
tess says
read the psalms.
Mike Garcia says
“When rock concerts and worship services are indistinguishable, then we’re of this world, not just in it.”
Big problem with this statement: worship is in the heart of the people participating, not in whether or not there are fog machines, lights, lasers, etc. I’ve seen worship services where hymns are played on stringed instruments with no amplification (fiddles, acoustic guitars, mandolins) and it looked exactly like a bluegrass performance I saw in an art gallery. The ONLY difference is the heart of the musicians and those singing in participation. That’s it. True praise and worship transcends music. It will be a concert to those who want a concert; it will be worship to those who want to worship.
Jh says
Spot on!
Jason says
Correct
John Howard says
I have always said that if you can’t tell the difference between a rock concert and a worship service then the church just might have compromised.
Jh says
What is the difference between “The World” & “The Church”? Christ. That’s it, Christ! We have Christ and they don’t, Christ is the ONLY difference between “The World” & “The Church”. So the ONLY difference between worship and a rock concert is, Christ. It’s not lights, speakers, fog, projectors, drummers, singers, or anything else you can think of. I find it unfathomable that so many people here think that if a certain style of worship makes them feel uncomfortable then that means it can’t be “Christian”. It seems that some here want to point fingers at the creative people who want to use their creativity in worship, instead of looking internally at why it is those things hinder their worship. Not everyone has to worship in the same way, but different does not equal sinful. If you think it does, then specifically name the sin.
Juli says
The laser and blinding lights shining in my face make it impossible for me to focus on worship. I had to wear sunglasses during worship a couple of weeks ago as it was so bright. Our pastor told us to be still and quiet and listen to what God was telling us but the background music was so loud there was massive reverb. How do they expect to hear anything with all the noise? I love music. I am seeing For King and Country tomorrow night and expect loud and light show but when I am trying to praise God I find the lasers and the loud pounding beat which they supply ear plugs for totally distracting. Sorry
Juli says
And what is my 75 year old dad and the other seniors supposed to do? It is like they are being run out of the charismatic churches. My dad can’t even hear what the preacher is saying when the loud background music is playing.
Elijah says
I can no longer go to any church with worship bands. The superficiality of it and the removal of the word of God from the celebration and the obvious worldliness of the services drive me nuts. I can’t stand it anymore.
It’s crazy, I find myself seeking out catholic services in order to hear actual scripture read in church (in three years of attendance the cover the entire bible) and a focus completely on god. Who would have thought.
Jh says
So what you’re saying is, you would rather attend a church that believes in works based salvation, prays to marry, prays to saints, & completely ignores Ephesians 2:8-9, than attent a church with a worship band? If so, your priorities are not in line with God’s
Bob says
Elijah. I have to say that I am in the same position that you are. Having been raised as a Methodist, my wife and I started going to an Assemblies of God church in 1980. My wife was raised as a Catholic and we were married in a Catholic Church. She just never got anything out of the old Latin Mass; Therefore we attended one AG church for 30 years and raised our children in the church. A few years prior to my mother-in-laws death in 2010, we went with her to Mass fairly regularly because my wife did not want her Mother going to Mass alone. I still love the Mass because, as you stated, I hear the word of God much more than in any AG church today. I have had it with “Worship Leaders and Worship Teams” and music so loud that my 5 year old grandson lies in the pew with his hands over his ears, eagerly awaiting escape to children church. Both my wife and I have expressed our concern over the maxed out volume of our worship services, but, pardon the pun, it has fallen on deaf ears. Our AG church has adopted some of the Rick Warren “Purpose Driven Church” doctrine and it has become clear to me that change is permanent and that if my wife and I cannot adapt to it, we are free to leave. My daughter is concerned about the kids hearing and I, in all good conscience, can no longer encourage her to attend an Assemblies of God church. That is so sad because we had a wonderful experience raising our sons and daughter to love and serve God and to sing praises to Jesus in a wonderful AG church. Sorry for the long post but Elijah touched a cord in my heart with his posting.
Liz says
Ditto
Krista says
I usually don’t wade in on these discussions but, this, I can’t let go. Please stop lumping all churches of a particular denomination as being “bad” because you dislike the one you have experienced. I attended a Presbyterian church for many years and can honestly say I never remember hearing about Jesus. I have attended some Baptist churches that were so legalistic they misquoted the Bible to prove their points. I have attended Catholic masses that were nothing more than idol worship and ritual. I have attended non-denominational churches where the message was so watered down it wasn’t even Scripture. I have attended Assembly of God churches people were dancing in the aisles and disrupting the message. All this, to say this, I have also attended or know people who attend all of these denominations where the word of God is taught and preached, where the people love and serve the Lord, and where all is done to the glory of God and not man. It is NOT the denomination, it is the people in that particular church.
Liz says
I just don’t want to be forced to wear earplugs and/or leave during worship to get through church and I find that to be a problem more and more often.
Phil says
My wife and I attend a seemingly well balance church with
Faith and praise music. We have worked at blending age and
music for most who come. Good bible based church reaching out to every one . No one is perfect except you know who.✝
John Greenland says
OK, I haven’t read all the above but I’m wondering about something that no one seems to question. It is the bottom line for me, one that has bothered me all my Christian life;
Why must we have bands performing in church at all?
It’s disingenuous to say that a “worship band” is not performing when they’re on a stage in the front of the room. This is a horizontal model taken straight from the world of entertainment. If it walks like a duck…It is a de facto performance. By it’s very nature it conflicts with a vertical relationship to God. That’s why I come to church in the first place, not to hear a soft rock concert.
I want church to be different from Monday through Saturday, not as similar as possible. (Though I have to admit that I never listen to Christian contemporary music by choice.)
Why do all church performers need amplification, regardless of the size of the room?
Why are we expected to sing when all we can hear is the band?
Why must every Sunday include a mandatory lukewarm concert of Rock with it’s teeth pulled.
Churches spent time and money for many hundreds of years making sure the singers (not many “worship bands” then) were heard and not seen. Look at older churches – they used balconies and wooden grillwork and all kinds of ways to hide the musicians. They were to be heard and not seen. This reinforced the vertical, not the horizontal.
I think that the whole horizontal performance model is wrong and springs completely from the desire to make us comfortable and at home. Not the things Jesus was too concerned with, I’m happy to say. It makes me uncomfortable and bored, and sometimes I have to get out of the noise.
Whatever happened to silence?
Jh says
I could really careless if the worship band was seen or not. It would be really awkward, but ultimately it doesn’t matter. What I do have an issue with is saying that if the band is in front, then it’s “wrong.” What verse are you referring to?
A discussion between right and wrong is always analytical. Everything else is opinion and God doesn’t care about your opinion, we get no say in the matter of right and wrong.
Now, if you prefer a different style of worship, that’s ok, but it’s your preference not my mandate.
John says
There is no “verse” about this kind of thing. Not every little issue is addressed in scripture, God allows and expects us to use our sanctified brains too. It’s not my opinion that a band in front of a group of people is a performance – that’s the very definition of one. The power and message of the medium is NOT lost in the process, no matter how sincere the setting. The congregation has become an audience and in many churches in my experience singing “in the pews” has almost ceased because it’s so much easier to watch the band and remain anonymous in the wash of volume which makes it impossible to hear yourself anyway.
Yes, this is my opinion and I’m not King of the World forcing anyone else to see it my way. But I know for a fact that there are many who agree with me on this.
Jh says
You used the word “wrong” you didn’t say it was your opinion. And by your own definition of performance you’d have to include any pastor who preaches from the front. I think what’s happening here is praise bands get blamed for the lack of worship and depth from a congregation. Also, right and wrong is not defined by your ability to find people who agree with you. If you can’t name the sin it either mean it’s not sin or your ignorant to the word (ignorant their is not an insult, we all have areas of the word we don’t know as well as we should).
John says
You’re not listening (or reading) to what I’m saying. I never accused anyone of “sin” and I have never thought of my opinion as equal to a word from God!
I don’t see any point in going back and forth on this. Let’s just agree to disagree.
Merry Christmas!
Bran M says
It becomes a problem when every protestant chuch that you enter has a rock band and no older church members. If we traditionalist are being forced out of the worldly church and back into the ancient orthodox or catholic church, so be it. God will preserve His church
Middler says
I find myself really missing the days when we had simple instruments and just voices…like an organ or piano and just the congregational voices. Now, the music is mostly a rock concert. The music today is meant for professional voices and not for regular church congregants to sing. Regular church-goers cannot sing the style of professional singers. All eyes are on the worship band singing and playing heavy handed drumbeats and electric guitar. I find church singing to not be worshipful due to the drumbeats banging in my head, along with guitar solos in the middle of a song. Praise…maybe. It just doesn’t seem worshipful to me. The sad part is, much of the music being sung is low quality and non-thought provoking phrases. “Oh Jesus you are God”…over and over and over…and over and over. More of a chant than a song. I’m floored after we finish one of these one phrase songs. They show the credits at the end and it took 5 people to write it. Incredible. It gets even better when the worship band leader says, “Let’s sing that one more time.” as he goes off into some kind of trance on stage swaying back and forth. Lastly, few can remember these songs. There’s not much of a tune and the words are not thought enhancing. When times of trouble come, no one can remember these words or tunes. Church music should also serve as beacons during the storms to come. I do notice the entire congregation singing when they decide to do an old hymn…such as “How Great Thou Art”. After that, few congregants sing.
Laura says
I completely agree with you! That is my experience as well–the lyrics are so dumbed down and uninspiring that I can’t wait til the concert portion is over. We just moved to a new state and are looking for a new church but all of them have become cookie cutter–40 minutes of a bad concert –it feels like the same band at every church we’ve attended! There is no individuality–nothing that sets the service apart from any other church whether it’s non-denominational, baptist, Lutheran or whatever.
Josh says
I think all of these posts reinforce the reason for “different” church denominations and styles. Diversity was created by God, but all of the pointing to what’s wrong or right is part of the problem. War over Religion has killed more people than any other single cause. God encourages us to love our brothers and sisters, not condemn them for the way they choose to express their feelings towards Him.
John Greenland says
Well, war over religion doesn’t compare to war for economic/territorial gain… Please see http://carm.org/religion-cause-war for some stats on that. Wars over religion don’t come even remotely close to non-religious wars. This dangerous myth is a prime tool for atheists and others who hate religion (not you, Josh!)
Back to the subject at hand – I don’t think anyone here is condemning anyone else for worshiping any particular way. It’s the almost ubiquitous use of worldly or entertainment styles that supplant meaty thoughtful content and time for reflection that is troubling to some of us. Not all will agree with anything, especially in America in the 21st century!
As one who is not comfortable with loud bands and performance in church, I’d be more optimistic if there really were alternatives as many seem to assume. Good luck finding a church with a live Spirit that doesn’t use the same amplified performance approach, big screens and all. It’s pretty much all there is now.
tess says
I am a singer, a loud one and can sing as good as any of the top worship singers and quite frankly I like to hear myself sing along in worship. maybe theres a bit of pride involved. I’m human but i know when i sing at home like this I get the presence of God overcome me regularly whereas Im not getting that in worship in churches. In churches I also like to hear people around me. instead what I am getting in most churches is booming sound systems where you can only hear the worship band and they are far too loud. yes many of them are talented and good to listen to , but its WORSHIP. its about us ALL worshipping and lifting our voices to God. Its not a concert. the sound levels are too loud. Ive even been to concerts like tracy chapman where we all sang along and could hear ourselves but we cant do this in a lot of churches. Its also not about us going deaf in the process. I believe the levels are not healthy for hearing in some places. Im frustrated with the whole church worship issue. I get to some places late and worship in my car on the journey there.
aside of this, I do have a good story re worship. I was in a landerette playing “God with us” on my mobile w/o earphones as I did my washing when a non christain musician asked me who was playing. she said she really liked the music and made a note of the band and song name. so good music can draw in the lost and hopefully speak to them.
Just me says
Darkness depresses me and I feel creeped out by it. Its the opposite of how I experience God in my mind and heart which I connect to the light and healing and warmth. Sickness and sadness are always dark experiences because in those instances we cant tolerate light.
Jim says
At what point in time did we feel the need to have someone “lead us in worship”?
I don’t need a worship leader, worship band or even a choir. In fact, those things do not lift up God, but man.
And why are these things done now in the dark? It’s very sensual and mimics a rock concert. It grieves my spirit.
J. Brooks says
Church used to be a place to meet Christian friends, worship, and refresh the spirit of God in us. I really don’t mind that half the congregation is wearing shorts and t-shirts, but it’s hard to feel a message (if there is one) when the songs are all raucous, mantra-like, and unfamiliar, and the entire collective must stand in this catacomb-like setting for most of the service. Today, Sunday, when one of the congregation members of another, new church I was investigating bid me a “fine weekend” I felt the smile melt on my face; this isn’t the feeling I long for on Sunday. There is only one holdout church anywhere close to me that holds a traditional service: robed choir, beautiful solos, a meaningful, peaceful. allegorical message; no rousing rounds of applause, and lets me leave lifted with hope in my heart. My wife is so unhappy she has all but stopped going, and church used to be a cornerstone of our lives. I hoped and looked for an alternative, class-based, selection to “traditional” Sunday services, but even “Sunday School” is becoming passe. I am so saddened by this departure.
Jh says
I find it disheartening how people have turned church into a Me-centric place. Church isn’t a place were we go to be served, it’s a place were we go to serve. If you’re not growing it’s not your church’s fault, it’s yours.
J. Brooks says
Familiar, comforting liturgy seems to have fallen by the way in this environment. It makes church worship inviting and familiar to many people. Something I would love to hear at the close of services in this new church environment is Numbers 6: 24-6. It used to be a common, hopeful ending to worship. I hope I have not offended you in any way. It was not my intention.
Karen Bullington says
What do you mean by “If you’re not growing it’s not your church’s fault, it’s yours.” Is someone “not growing” [which I believe means growing more like Christ] when they are not comfortable with the changes in worship being imposed by churches? Our church claims to be “refocusing” on attracting those not going to church with the worship changes. I have been at this church 40 years and we have always focused on reaching the lost. Yes, we are to serve. But, during a “worship service” aren’t we supposed to worship? During that time, our hearts should be lifted to God. If the music is so loud it hurts, and the laser lights shining in our eyes are hurting our eyes, then the ability to connect with God is hurt. Jesus told Peter to “feed my sheep” three times. Jesus wanted the multitudes to be reached, but, He also wanted the church to meet the needs of its people. Church means people. If extreme change chases people away, the Church is not meeting its responsibility. I realize any organization cannot make everyone happy, but a church that is focused on growth, should take seriously retaining people as well.
Jh says
This post was in reply to someone’s earlier post.
Steve B says
I was just asked to resign as the Media Lead from my church after 12 years. I have my own business so this was not about the income, “I was paid a stipen for my time. I have run sound for various bands and at event sites for the past 33 years. Installed systems and trained other techs, it was a passion for me. ” The worship minister who has been with us for just over a year stated that we had a different philosophy about sound. He wanted it louder and louder no matter the talent level of the various changing “performers”, “his words”. If it sounded bad or too loud I adjusted levels appropriately. Our worship minister stated many times that he wanted the “performances” to be like a concert. I have always tried to think about the various age groups in our congregation knowing that most older folks had auditory issues. We have two services, a traditional and contemporary. The term “traditional” is in name only, it has slowly morphed into a contemporary one as well. We have lost a whole bunch of members due to the changes. Many changes have been made to the services, mainly visual, “black walls, environmental lighting blacking out the service during the entire service.The “performers” have changed too, all new band members brought in, “most all of the musicians we had have left due to being rotated out without an explanation. I am hesitant to say this but the look on stage is very “worldly” I am so torn up about the lack of respect and disregard for many long time members who have left after being told from the pulpit that they are just wrong for being concerned about the changes.
It’s church not a concert. The Church is to minister to the body. It is not here to entertain. If I want to go to a concert I will buy a ticket.
Steve
Jan G says
Amen!!
John L. Brooks says
Philippians !:15-19 Recommended. I am uncomfortable in a church where the congregation is asked to stand ni the dark for extended periods of singing in dull and repetitious chorus while backed by a five piece band; that said, Christ, in Philippians , tells us that the road to God takes many forms and all routes are valuable if the congregant benefits. I am often sickened by TV evangelists, but the same scripture applies, so I continue to move on from one church to another when the modified method ruffles me a bit; thankfully, there plenty of alternatives where we live, and we can always find a new table where we can feed our spirits.
Jan G says
Christ is the Light of the World so why should the darkness be brought into His house of worship? He never had to “put on a show” to share His message. I’ve visited a church where it was in a darkened room and the music was extremely loud. It did not feel like church to me. My former church Just has moved into that direction as well.
The definition of reverent is the feeling or showing of deep and solemn respect. To me I don’t think that a concert setting is very reverent.
Lynn Wilburn says
I, unfortunately, was on the front end of ushering in the “band worship” scenario back in the 1980s and 1990s as a keyboard player and vocalist. I participated out of a true heart of worship to the Lord. I look at what it has become today and my heart grieves. I won’t even attend a service with a worship band anymore because I find that most are so far from worship. The music is nothing but chanting the same phrases over and over again and has no theology or doctrine to them– especially Bethel and Hillsong. I also saw into the life of some of these “worship leaders” dancing across the stage no different than a rock concert. These same people would send me derogatory emails and had a lifestyle of gossip and lies. These are red flags for me. They do not have the heart of Christ and live a lifestyle opposing Christian doctrine. My own ex-husband was abusive towards me while leading a “worship band.” I don’t buy into the whole scene anymore. I have gone back to the hymnal and love the doctrine in them.
Stella says
This is an old post but still relevant. I was watching this music video on YouTube of a church band. The song is good, but the band is at the center of it all (with the lights on them and the crowds around them). When the crowd raised their hands in worship, it looked like they were worshipping the band.
I personally feel uncomfortable at this kind of setting. I think that the band/singers should guide and lead people to singing but should not be very prominent that they become like celebrities.
Mike says
I wonder how many worship leader and bands would be lost if they had to play behind a closed curtain were they are only heard and not seen?