Jim Sandridge of Immanuel Baptist Church of Skiatook, Oklahoma had some interesting things to say to his congregation and volunteers in the A/V room.
A couple of points come to mind:
- Never humiliate your tech team, they know how to use YouTube–aka: Revenge.
- Should this video have never made its way to the public?
I recommend you start watching at about 2-minutes in, but the whole thing is pretty crazy:
In no way shape or form do I support Sandridge’s behavior, but this does raise an interesting question as the power of technology isn’t just power, but responsibility. Without any context or understanding, this may in fact look worse that it really is (or it really is this bad).
Imagine this for a moment:
Think of the worse argument you’ve had with your spouse or maybe even your ugliest moment as a human being. Now, imagine someone put it on YouTube.
Thoughts?
Michelle Waters says
I stopped at the 47 second mark, when he publically told someone that he/she was the sorriest church member he has. That was out of line.
I am also an English teacher, and I would never call one of my students out like that — or even think of them that way. I have heard teachers talk to students that way — and it tells me the teacher’s heart is not right. Teachers and pastors should be edifying their students and flocks.
That said, sometimes people do need to be called out for their behavior — but it needs to be done privately — not in public. Matthew 18:15-17
Eric Dye says
Very true, Michelle. Thanks for throwing down some Matthew 18!
George says
Privately first, then with a member of leadership only then if not corrected should it go before the church
Mack King says
Oh, you missed the best parts! especially when he told the same couple that they wasn’t worth 15 cents combined. and that he “Loved them”
yeaa…
Eric Dye says
Seriously. This guy is awful.
Adam Shields says
I have to say, I basically view this as a whistle blowing exercise not a vengeance. Maybe I am wrong. But this pastor appears to be out of control and it isn’t just at the AV guys. Maybe this is the only time ever that he has ever said anything like this. But I doubt it.
So I think your analogy is bad. It seems more like the kid that records a parent beating up a sibling to turn over to child and protective services than a spouce recording your during your worst moment.
What makes me think that this isn’t a single event is that from the portion I watched, no one gets up and walks out. No one objects. This feels like on going abuse not a one off bad day.
Eric Dye says
Yeah, you’re probably right. #sadpanda
Peter says
Really hoping there’s more to this than whatever got this pastor riled up. I do know if I were present that day it would be the last day I attended. Unless there was some blatant issue going on and those people had been addressed in private with witnesses bringing up any of those issues was out of line. Even then, the attitude did not come across as one desiring restoration but one of condemnation. Ouch.
I appreciate the thought at the end – it’s easy to call out the pastor for being out of line (which it seems is the case barring any other context), but we’re often just as guilty of rantings like this at one point or another. The main difference being that we don’t have a pulpit and audience for them.
Eric Dye says
Very true, Peter. Those of us in leadership or have access to a pulpit or audience are held to a higher standard.
D says
I don’t know about you, but I suddenly have an urge to go establish my own kingdom in the video room.
Daniel Milner says
I’m in! What time do we meet?
Jason says
Sweet! I’ll order the pizza.
Eric Dye says
LOL!
Derrick says
My wife & I used to work in a similar situation years ago when we first started in the music ministry. About 18 months is all we could handle of the situation. Although it never was quite as bad as you see here in the video, we left every Sunday evening after the service was over feeling just plain beat down! I would have to say this pastor, & I use the word pastor very lightly here, is a very insecure person. It seems to me that he feels under attack maybe because he has said some things like this before & now he feels the need to lash out at what little congregation he has left because he is losing people because of this type of poor leadership. I believe as leaders we should never use our pulpit or stage to lash out at church members this way. It’s just not biblical to handle it this way. I really don’t understand why the ones you see in the video are still attending church there if this is the norm for this man.
Eric Dye says
Stockholm Syndrome?
John says
I was in a service once where this happened. Good thing I was just visiting. I didn’t go back.
Eric Dye says
Neither would I.
Seth says
WOW! This is insane! I would LOVE to go have a little meeting with this Pastor and have him tell me all this to my face! How crazy! This is making me boil up just watching it! Thanks to the tech guys for showing this, I’m guessing old man Pastor has no idea how to even turn on the camera, let alone point it at himself!
Great find!
Eric Dye says
#BOOM! 😀
Jason says
LIke you said – we don’t know the backstory – but I couldn’t help but notice how the congregation just sat and hung their heads during the tirade. Only the kids seemed to notice he was calling out folks. They just sat and hoped he wouldn’t call their name. Why wouldn’t any of them walk out or stand up for themselves? Maybe they like this guy in some twisted way.
I could go on, but there’s pizza in the video kingdom, apparently.
Eric Dye says
Amen. FYI: Head over there quick, the pepperoni is almost gone.
George says
whats wrong with the video room being a youth hang out? 🙂
Eric Dye says
Teens are the best tech volunteers, too!
(Is there any pizza left?)
David says
This is spiritual abuse plain and simple. There is no redeeming quality to this level of abuse; calling out people publicly for past transgressions and humiliating your congregation.
Eric Dye says
None whatsoever.
Jarrod says
I watched the entire video. I’m sad, more than anything. This is a pastor who’s clearly lost touch with many of his congregation, and obviously his volunteer staff/church staff.
I don’t need to echo the sentiments of others, but having served in a church where the pastor wasn’t exactly technically inclined, if the sound/video person hasn’t left yet, and can muster the courage, it may be a great moment to speak to him about what it’s like in there and how they can best understand and work along side each other.
I had that conversation many years ago during my tenure, and it served us well going forward in a mutual understanding and respect. I fear this pastor, though, may be too far gone.
Eric Dye says
You watched the entire video!?!? I’m impressed. I respect your feedback good, sir. Thank you!
Rudy says
For reference and context, here’s the link to the full sermon video (over an hour long). The clip above takes place about 39 minutes in, but to be honest, the rest of the sermon isn’t much less-crazy than the clip. The poor guy he seems to be picking on for falling asleep appears to have been a target even from the beginning of the sermon.
http://www.ibcskiatook.com/index.php?option=com_preachit&id=585:may-19th-2013-morning-service&view=video&Itemid=232
OK, I’m gone back to the Video Room Kingdom. Peace!
Eric Dye says
Wow. Thanks, Rudy.
bruce says
i think the last line in the video says a lot
I believe he says something along the lines of “that feels good”. That to me shows that its coming from the flesh rather than the spirit. He should be grieved at even bringing it up in private, especially in public.
Eric Dye says
True story.
Ted Hamilton says
This video raises an interesting point… I don’t agree with the way the pastor addressed his congregation in specific. However, I do think that as a culture, we’ve embraced a view of church that is far too democratic. The pastor has no magic answers or connection to God that didn’t exist pre-ordination, per se. However, the pastor has been called to lead (assuming it’s a legitimate call not human usurpation or vain glory seeking.) There are times when a pastor may have to address his congregation in a condemnatory style or with “hellfire and brimstone” as the adage goes. However, even that should be done out of motivation of love and support, and warning, not a blanket condemnation a la OT prophets. Congregations have gotten to lax at hearing what they want to hear. Pastors have gotten to lax at expecting and demanding more of their congregants. And the church in general needs to get a stronger spine, IMO. We’re soft and lazy and sometimes need a good (loving) kick in the rear end. I, for one, would return to a church where the message was strong but delivered lovingly. This video doesn’t seem like that’s the case.
Eric Dye says
Well said!
Jenna says
I’m really actually surprised at the negative reaction this pastor is getting. Hear me out: I don’t agree with the WAY he called folks out. But doesn’t the bible warn us against church leaders that “tickle the ears”? In this day of seeker-friendly churches, we end up with a lot of tickling and not of lot of prickling. We are sinners, people. We are saved by grace, but with the acceptance of grace comes some responsibility. Our pastors are supposed to lead us down a right path. No way would my pastor perform a marriage ceremony for a man and woman that he didn’t know was committed and saved and actively walking with the Lord. I would be offended if he did! He wouldn’t call out a parishioner for dozing off, because most likely, he would already know if they were tired from partying the night before, or from working two full-time jobs– because he knows his flock. And I mean that. My pastor works hard at making sure he knows the people in his church. We’ve had to ask families to leave our church because their teens were out of control and being a bad influence on the other teens in the church. It stunk. They were angry. But eventually they reached out for the help that had been previously offered and rejected, and there are good things happening as a result. I understand that this was not the way to go about it. But the calling out needed to be done. I love that he finally got it off his chest. He’s probably been bogged down by a church board that didn’t want to make waves, that was content with watered-down Christianity because it was bringing folks with checkbooks into the church. Would I have been offended if he had called me out? Maybe. But what if everything he was saying was true? It wasn’t eloquent. It wasn’t thought out. But he had had it. Pastors are under a lot of stress. This guy snapped. Should the tech kids have put the video on YouTube? I don’t think it was the most mature option to consider. I’ve been trying to find out if the Pastor is still at the church or decided to retire. But I think it’s a shocking commentary on our culture that the pastor comes out looking like the bad guy, when he was just the one over-turning the tables, so-to-speak.
Peter says
Jenna, I think it’s exactly the _way_ in which this pastor got things off his chest that is the problem. I’m not even sure that the tech kids put the video on Youtube. The church has a video archive of messages, of which this is a small part – it’s online for all to see.
There are better places to vent your frustrations than in a sermon. Maybe he went to those people privately first. Maybe he even took witnesses a second time. However, even then we’re called towards reconciliation and bringing someone back into the fold rather than calling out their issues in front of the congregation as a list of annoyances.
Perhaps these people needed to hear from someone that there were problems, but we’re told to do that privately (at first) and in love. Based on this snippet – that was not the case.
Eric Dye says
As far as others have commented, this was par for the course. :/