I heard someone say that the other day in an off-hand flippant type of way and I think I just stared blankly at the person for a moment. I think I said someone to the effect of “I guess it’s not for you then...” and attempted to steer the conversation somewhere else.
E-Coaching, or Online Coaching, or Virtual Coaching, or Online Education, (or whatever you’d like to call it) is growing. In fact, it’s already pretty big outside of the evangelical/christian segment; it’s just that some high-profile personalities have begun doing it professionally or semi-professionally.
Some people of note (HT: Leadnet – BTW, your numbers are off Leadnet…):
- Carlos Whittaker, Director of Service Programming at Buckhead Church in Atlanta, is offering a four-month coaching network on “Closing The Gap in your creative ministry/business.”
- Tony Morgan, former Chief Strategic Officer at NewSpring Church in South Carolina, is offering a six-month coaching network for church strategists and leaders.
- Kem Meyer, Communications Director at Granger Community Church, is offering an six-month coaching network for Church Communications Strategy.
- Tim Stevens, Executive Pastor at Granger Community Church, is offering an six-month coaching network for executive pastors.
You’ve probably heard of these people, right? Definitely some smart people who are making an attempt to leverage their influence and wisdom.
Of course, expect to pay some green.
Carlos is cheap-guy on the street with a $200 sticker tag per person (although he’s engaging with a lot more than the others at any given time, so it’s a quantity-game here), and I’d imagine his rates will more than likely increase as he finishes his first series. Not sure what Tony’s charging, but Kem is around the $2,200 mark and Tim is hanging around the $3,500 range.
Really. Really?
Yes.
More thoughts after the jump…
So What’s Going On Here?
With the advent of cheaper (read free) and better web conferencing tools (Tokbox, TinyChat, and even newer ones like TeamApart) online education is simply better and more easy than ever before. It really doesn’t take any brains to get started.
But, what it does take is an existing platform of expertise, brand-awareness, and personality. All of the ones mentioned above have that well-oiled and established.
I think it also takes something uniquely valuable as well to provide that targeted value-add that may be worth the coin. I’m not sure everyone (not necessarily including the 4 above) have that to offer their listeners.
Typically I find most people sitting in one of these four camps of thinking when it comes to E-Coaching:
- The Ego Camp: People in this line of thinking believe that the coaches are just full of themselves and want to make a quick buck off of their already-diminishing egotistical platforms, especially if they’ve recently left a full time gig at an established church or organization. Bonus points to the person who left because they had a “falling out” with the senior leadership on staff.
- The Poser Camp: People in this camp simply believe that the person offering the coaching is a poser; they believe that these people are simply bogus; really not worth what they are charging and certainly don’t have anything unique to say worth paying for.
- The OMG-I-CAN-NOT-BELIEVE-THEY-ARE-CHARGING-THAT Camp: These people are either cheapskates or are genuinely miffed by the cost of these coaching networks and do not believe that the cost is even remotely close to the worth of what the return on investment is. Or, they are “Open Source” type people who believe that we, as the Body of Christ, should generally not charge for such services and give this stuff away for free.
- The Supportive Camp: This camp is simply supportive of the E-Coaches and their decision to leverage their influence and time for others; some may have even already participated and even more are considering it. In addition, more than a few have considered doing it themselves and even more who had no idea that this was even possible and are genuinely intrigued.
Again, I typically can bucket people in one of these four camps, but of course there always exists the chance of an exception.
Where I Stand on E-Coaching
I’ll admit it: I’ve seriously considered starting one but for more than a few legitimate reasons I’ve decided against it at this time. For the most part I simply don’t have the time right now.
I think E-Coaching is a great service to the body of believers. I think that a person has the right to charge for it, but only after serious thought about the cost and return on investment that they seek to provide. I think a fair and reasonable price is a good thing.
But, I cannot overstate the value of free. There’s something about this model that seriously attracts me and that aligns with my personal conscience and beliefs that would (and has) caused serious consideration in light of E-Coaching.
In addition I would, for myself, need to find the very distinct and critical balance of product and service; what am I giving them physically to take with them and what I’m providing them on-going (if applicable) basis.
Also I would want, as much as I humanly could, to stay “above reproach” to the most people in terms of price and charge a fair amount where most, (and hopefully all), would look at the sticker tag and not react negatively. Of course, this is the most nebulous and subjective part of it but hey, what can you do.
Finally, I think there’s something to be said about having a “real” job somewhere where you are rooted that provides that robust background and foundation for your coaching. Many may disagree with me but I personally would feel more at ease with an E-Coach who doesn’t do E-Coaching as a full time job but has some firmly built roots to a local business and/or organization where they are being fed themselves, whether that is paid or unpaid. I think this marches along well with establishing and maintaining credibility of their content and presentations.
All-in-all I am supportive of those that decide to do it. I think it’s neat and certainly can benefit many as well as provide a viable source of income for those that need it. I strongly advise anyone who considers it to be judicial in their thinking, strategic in their deployment and cost structure, wise about the element of free, and never find themselves on an island without the support of a much larger organization or team.
So, where do you stand? What do you think about E-Coaching? Let’s hear it.
dave anderson says
Love it – I am e-coaching some pastors of smaller churches for a small reasonable fee. I think the scriptures are clear that a workman is worthy of his hire. I can only help a certain segment of the pastor population and can only help them get so far because I am only so far down the road. Helping others will help me grow too.
rspilhaus says
I think I agree with you on this one. I'm a huge proponent of Free, but if they want to charge for it and people want to pay that's ok with me. I probably won't be paying, but I don't hold that against them.
It also makes us value the free resources that we are given (thank you ChurchCrunch!) so much more ๐
Adam_S says
I have no real issues with charging. Some people just won't be able to pay and that is an issue that might be addressed in a variety of ways.
But I think your later issue of what the "real job" of the coach is important. If the coach doesn't have something that "legitimizes" what they are doing and provides them with their own realm of learning then the coach will quickly become dated and lower their value to the "consumer". I think denominations have had this problem a lot. They see successful pastors, hire them to be denominational leaders or trainers and the pastors leave their pastorate and start leading denominations into a future that is based on their own past. I believe in coaching, but in coaching that is based on a bi-vocational coach, with the coach continuing to work at their own thing.
michael buckingham says
While I'm not a fan of coaching when it's just following the money, I'm also not a fan of doing it for free.
Too long the church has looked for, and found, the cheapest & easiest route. By setting the value at $0 you also set yourself up to be undervalued. I think if you bring something of worth, there's no reason not to be paid for that worth. And yes, I get the 'it's for the kingdom' bit…but that's not an excuse for a pastor, church, etc. to be cheap. If I want to give it for free, and I have, that's my act of worship to offer, not theirs to expect it.
I don't have a coaching program now…but it is one of the things on our burners and it's starting to smell really good.
anivus says
Good stuff. I looked into coaching with Los.. and it's $200 a month for 4 months ($200 x 4 = $800)… so it still adds up. I am sure its worth it, but I'm moving and don't have extra greenbacks to spare. I guess for now I will have to settle for reading his blog ๐
@bayshorts says
I'll chime in on this one.
I've actually gotten to get in on the first round of Carlos' coaching, and we've only had 1 one-on-one session. And so far? The sticker price has been worth it's weight in gold. Personally, I'm more apt to do something knowing it "costs" me something anyway, and the financial leverage is a good way to ensure that he absolutely speaks his mind, and that I'll follow through.
Two changes I've made already have been monumental in affecting where I'll end up in the future. Sure, it's only advice, and it's up to us to make the changes they suggest….but in the end, a 3 degree shift to the left could make the difference between me ending up in Hawaii or Minnesota as a leader.
Bottom line? If given the opportunity to stand on the shoulders of great church-leaders, and learn from their experience & mistakes, who wouldn't pay for that? (Get wisdom, even though it costs you everything? I dunno.)
Wendy Lundahl says
Well John here goes. It's not about the money it's about e coaching or coaching. Having followed this concept for at least three years the results I have seen is the one being coached manipulating the coach so that there was reasons to justify —-let's just say what ever the coached person wanted to get done. Also have seen a co-dependency develope in another coached person. Also have seen enabling by manipulation. By the way all were in a Christian organization. I am sure that millions are helped but motive and ablities are all that should matter.
Steve Knight says
hey John, thanks for linking to my post over at Leadnet — and for lovingly and gently correcting my misinformation on the dates! ๐ I've updated my post and added a link there over to here. I really appreciated reading your thoughts on this subject.
human3rror says
sure thing steve.
loswhit says
In the end, one must do what God calls them to do. Tweets, blogs, opinions aside.
Dreamers will always chase dreams. And haters will always cry out against the dreamers because the haters are miserable.
12 years and 2 jobs later, Their statement is null. Especially when you chase a calling.
Los
human3rror says
word. sometimes someone can't “hold a job” because that's exactly what God has asked them to do: Somethign else.
Graham Brenna says
I'd be in the supportive camp. I've met Tony Morgan when he did his road trip and stopped in Aurora, IL. It was reasonably priced ($30) and I learned a lot!
klreed189 says
I think it is a great opportunity. I would be in with Los if I had money to spend on that. But I really don't have a job and a church to pay for me to go to these coaching networks.
I think it is a great idea and a great way to learn with each other.
My dad is a health coach and is in pretty high demand from a lot of different companies. He has had a lot of training on "how to" coach. Asking the right questions, the process, etc…I think this is very important to have the experience and training. I understand these guys that are consider "professionals" in their area of ministry or coaching, but coming together to meet and learn is important and I would want a coach that is trained and is working through ideas on where they are taking the training sessions.
From what I hear from friends and see online, it seems like Carlos and Tony are doing a great job at that.
I just got into doing some coaching. I am not charging anything. Really I just see it as a chance to be a resource to friends and others who want to talk about ideas, music, ministry, or whatever. I just want to make myself available to others because I feel like I am a sponge at times and want to get the word out on great resources that I find or hear about.
John I think you should go for the coaching idea. You could really help out some churches that are looking to develop online community and an online campus.
stephenbateman says
I think it's worth it to pay for experience.
Tim Stevens is one of the best at what he does, and an hour of his time is very valuable. An alternative to straight one-on-one time is more of an aggregate approach, like Backstage Leadership (I'm a participant, not a proponent).
Less time with A-Listers, but also less $$ and more variety.
chrishill says
Tony Morgan's current coaching network was $1200. Not only is it worth it for Tony's detailed personal coaching that goes well beyond the blog or book, but it's given me the opportunity to learn from 11 other ministry guys with various backgrounds, experience, work styles, etc. Those relationships have been super important for someone like me who's new to this ministry thing.
John, if you're considering this: From my personal experience, the group chosen by the "coach" is very important to the health and overall experience. The more diverse the group, the better.
Jim says
I'm coaching someone for free now. I'll probably seek some coaching in the near future.
RWR says
Just curious, what would your coaching include??
human3rror says
unsure since I'm not pursuing it at this time… but, i could promise awesomeness…!
RWR says
Killer! I gotta get me an avatar or something. Blank face not cool ;-D
Matthew Daniel says
Just thought I'd re-affirm what you wrote. Outside of my ministry stuff, I'm a full-time training and development professional. My team works in a completely virtual environment (we don't have good tools for it, though), because most of us work from home all over the country. Training and development professionals have been doing a version of e-coaching for over 5 years, thought it's changed with time. I'd be interested to find out what communication tools Los and Tony use for communication other than email, phone, and reading a book together.
I'm in favor of you guys being paid for your work. It's over and above your job responsibilities at the office – and time is money. If it's going to require you to spend less time with your family, there's got to be a premium on it. I do everything for my church for free, but other organizations have asked me for help outside of my full-time job and I always give them an hourly rate. Sometimes that rate is higher and sometimes that rate is lower based on where the organization is – but my time is worth dollars. So is yours!