We are rolling out two experiences in January that are targeted at different crowds.
One is basically what you have come to expect from an internet campus, essentially a live stream of our Sunday morning experience. This is targeted at people looking for a church experience on the web.
The other experience is our big focus and will consume the bulk of our energies. This second experience is targeted at unchurched people and will look nothing like church.
The Internet Campus, like our physical Campuses, needs to be financially self reliant at three years. At one of our brainstorming sessions a couple weeks ago, the thought of running ads on some of our sites came up. We haven’t made any decision on it yet, it’s just a thought, so I thought I would engage the ChurchCrunch community on this one.
How could ads be used to support ministry oriented web space and still stay on mission, if at all?
Craig Saboe says
Question, then: are you expecting those who become members via the second experience stay there, or migrate to your first experience or something else? So you can't expect regular offerings/contributions from them, as they should all be non-members/visitors just looking around? I would hate that advertising would have to be used (kinda like having companies sponsor your weekly bulletin), but when it's a ministry to the unchurched who couldn't be expected to open their wallets just to wander in to your experience, you are rather stuck. Maybe this is an opportunity for an entirely new way of financing online ministries to be developed? (Why don't you take care of that and we'll just copy it when you're done 🙂 )
vince says
will do
Adam Lehman says
Great question.
I LOVE that you’re asking it publicly instead of heading to the back room to decide and then dealing with an outpouring of disapproval.
I think advertising weakens your message. When I listen to talk radio and the talk show host starts talking about a product, I realize that his whole message is about making money.
I think the only way around this, is to advertise for companies you select, verses those that seek out space for you. For example, if you advertised some non-profits on the page, you’d BOTH help yourself with income AND stay true to message.
Here are a list of types of companies I think would work well for an online church to use as advertisements:
-counseling services (marital, financial, etc…)
-missionary organizations
-world vision, compassion, kiva, etc.
-seminaries or bible colleges or just colleges
-financial counseling (dave ramsey, etc…)
-bloggers (you could have a rotating group and advertise those whose blogs most align with that weeks topic)
-books, small group curriculum, faith resources, etc.
-ethical companies (toms, fair trade coffee, etc).
Your advertisements can compliment your message instead of detract from it…
Daniel_Berman says
Great List! I wonder where this could develop?
vince says
One of the first questions raised was that of WHO would we let advertise in the spaces
GordonMarcy says
I believe you have just asked perhaps the second most important question regarding the use of technology to advance the Kingdom. The first, "Is using technology to reach people for Christ part of Gateway's DNA and God's calling for your church?" You've already answered that affirmatively.
What I hear you asking in the second question is, "can a church stay within it's Biblical mandate and operate a strategic outreach initiative with 100% ministry and 100% business principles?
Yes! It's been done. However, you might want to enlarge your considerations about monetization of the platform beyond ads.
Craig is dead on. This IS an opportunity to develop a new business model for Christian media.
vince says
Right. Most 'internet campuses' have the luxury of full underwriting by a church. We want to develop a self sustaining model. At the end of the day it takes dollars to make this happen…we have to do something creative.
stephenbateman says
I'm going to say I'm pretty strongly against ads, but here are my alternatives:
1. If this community of Christians isn't giving enough to support the work of the ministry, they need biblical teaching about money, and eventually self supporting will be possible.
Or
2. If this community is primarily of unbelievers, seekers, or whatever, and they aren't giving because they aren't under biblical mandate, then you don't have a church, you have a mission field. At that point, your internet campus is just like the trip to Nigeria, or the soup kitchen, and shouldn't reasonably be expected to be self supporting at all.
vince says
True. Kinda why it is a two part setup. A 'church' side and a mission side
Craig Saboe says
I like Adam's thoughts about limiting your ad service to "ethical" companies… are there any ad networks out there that provide such filtered ads? If not, there is open-source software for driving such a network, if there was an org. ready to do so (OpenX has it, for instance)…
Jake Johnson says
" If this community is primarily of unbelievers, seekers, or whatever, and they aren't giving because they aren't under biblical mandate, then you don't have a church, you have a mission field. At that point, your internet campus is just like the trip to Nigeria, or the soup kitchen, and shouldn't reasonably be expected to be self supporting at all."
This is a great point from Stephen.
Also, if you're goal is to reach people who are not believers, why would you want to create a possibility that they might click an ad and leave your site? Seems that may turn out to be self-defeating.
Finally, would you consider selling space within your physical church building for advertising? If not, why would you do it online?
vince says
Great questions jake.
@lisareid says
Let me start by stating that I've been at Gateway since before the launch, so I'm well-indoctrinated to the seeker church model. That can be either an advantage or a detriment when starting something new like this.
I'm opposed to ads for several reasons: they are distracting from the other elements on the page, which is what we're working hard to get seekers to pay attention to; as mentioned before, they can cause people to leave our site; and they can cause us to appear to be about money, which Gateway has never been about (although of course we need it to survive, as does any organization).
In our regular services, we've always said, "If you're here for the first time, or just checking out faith, this service is our gift to you." Why should the online experience be different? I think that, like our regular seeker ("Inspire") service, we should allow a place for people to give if they want (perhaps via an online donation button), but I would imagine that more of our regular income would come from Christ followers, as I hope it does in our brick and mortar facilities.
vince says
Right, i can say right away, that we won't run ads in the live environments. if we ran them at all they would be in the more bloggish type spaces.
Craig Saboe says
I think I'm beginning to agree with Jake J. and Stephen W.; ads are probably not the way to go. If you treat this like a 'mission field', as Stephen said, maybe it could be done as a joint ministry with other interested churches, sharing the financial burden? Without knowing anything about what "it" is, speculation is rather haphazard, but…
vince says
So far the consensus is against ads. So to move the discussion along, what are ways that an Internet Church could be missionally aggressive and financially self sufficient?
GordonMarcy says
Unless you sense the Lord telling you otherwise, I would strongly encourage you to not abandon the concept of developing "friends of the ministry" (sponsors) too quickly.
Non-commercial, 100% mission-focused radio stations and ministries have perfected approaches for partnering with the business community. It can be done. There are many creative variations on the idea as well. A change of terminology and definitions are needed to help facilitate discussion and "development" strategies that fit the culture of Gateway & the Austin community.
It probably requires a longer stream of give and take, than what a blog post allows.
GordonMarcy says
Just trying to stay on track with your need.
Assuming the church has determined that the Internet campus & Intersection.tv should be self-sustaining, then direct church giving is not on the whiteboard at this point.
However that doesn't mean the church isn't engaged, or encouraged, in supporting the initiative. Just the opposite.
Your church attenders, their families, friends and neighbors represent a desirable audience of prospective customers than can be encouraged through "permission marketing" to patronize your revenue partners and sponsors. The church family is informed about the marketing strategy and how they can help through patronage. If interested, they "opt in" for these marketing/advertising/promotion based efforts to support the Internet outreaches. (Many details related to concepts, targeting, tracking, etc. but you get the idea.)
BTW, there are many tasteful, creative ways to package touch point opportunities for "friends of the ministry" to reach your church family. That "does not" include giving a car salesman 120 seconds for a live infommercial from the stage just before the sermon. 🙂
Brian Barela says
vince thanks for your transparency and willingness to involve "outsiders" in this process.
quick thought–my assumption is that if this experience for non-believers is effective, then people will come to christ–my next assumption is that in the process of developing those new believers they would be asked to give financially towards the kingdom.
are you thinking that the growth of the online experience will stretch beyond the capacity of those reached by it to give?
it seems like virtual communities are already accustomed to the "freemium" model–free at first but then pay to get the "full experience"–wondering if you have considered some sort of adaptation of this model to your context.
love the innovation and faith! it's encouraging!
vince says
Really I'm just trying to get some thoughts stirred up about the whole thing, because it hasn't really been addressed.
you're on to something though, once we are up and running we will have people farther down the road of their spiritual journey to a point where they may give back…but I think in the end, most people that make the journey will/should end up in a local church.
so for most who start a faith journey because of an internet campus, that journey will be lead them away from the internet ministry….right about the time they might be at a place where giving becomes a part of their spiritual life they will be giving to something else?
Andy says
I tend to say stay away from advertising unless you can pick and choose the companies. As an alternative perhaps look at affiliate programs with selected christian vendors of publications/materials/products that folks that are looking for a church might buy something either out of a need or wanting to learn more about a subject such as relationships or the like.
For example – http://www.christianbook.com/ (a company run by brothers that are very involved in their local church) offers an affiliate program where a small commission is paid to a refering website for online orders. You can also use the affiliate program to encourage your regular church goers (non-online church) to also use the link to buy materials that will in turn support the online campus. This is a win-win for both your regular attendees and the online campus.
Postscript says
I hate to go against the grain, but I'm pro ads. I think it is unrealistic to say that ads are going to distract from the other elements – people already are used to ignoring ads. I think it is unrealistic to say that tithing is the only way ministry should ever be financially supported. And I think it is unrealistic to say that ministry and business can't be friends.
I think it is realistic to partner with for profit businesses and other non profit organizations who can benefit from exposure to your audience. I think it is realistic to be selective in the types of advertisers – sorry, most porn sites and beer brands don't want to spend money on your audience anyway. And I think it is realistic to appropriately target Christian and nonChristian audiences with different content.
As usual, the harshest critics of Christians are Christians and not the world.
vince says
I'll stir the pot some more…
The point you make about people being used to seeing ads is a good point and leads me to another question:
Does having ads on a site validate it as a site that is more serious?
GordonMarcy says
Excellence in content, quality in technique and a recognizable God-given mission will probably validate the seriousness of your site, more than the ads.
However, having ads can 1) Model good stewardship. You would be monetizing the platform but not relying solely on the congregation to do it. 2) Demonstrate a commitment to relationships within the business community. This can be a form of outreach itself. 3) Imply endorsement on the site's (church's) mission. Sponsors in a Christian environment, in many respects, are saying, "We believe in what you're doing."
Michael Hyatt (CEO Thomas Nelson Publishers) has ads on his leadership blog/website (www.michaelhyatt.com). They include: "Restoring the Soul Ministry," "Lord Save Us From Your Followers Movie," "National Outreach Convention," "Story," "Women of Faith," "Chick-fil-A," and more.
Surely he could underwrite the cost of the site.
Assuming the ads don't indicate that Michael Hyatt's site is more serious, what, if anything, might the sponsors tell us about him as a Christian leader, his communication platform or his audience?
human3rror says
love these thoughts here.
Vince says
I can tell that this conversation isn't over…I expect to revisit it soon
@tstefani says
It seems like I'm a little late for this topic. Like many here I don't think that ads are a great idea, especially for the site that is for the non Christians. Although people ignore ads most of the time they also click on them if they are good. So you are always competing with your content against the ads.
My two cents on the topic:
May be there is a potability to Partner with companies and ministries that compliment a current series. Like when there is a marriage series a marriage counseling and a romantic hotel. And they could have a section at the end of the live experience. Or there could be recommendations list at the end for in this case counseling "companies", so the ad partners would be trusted by the church.
Another thought I had on this topic is. Since one experience is outreach and the other one is church, Maybe they also could be seen economically as such. So that the church campus would have to be self reliant and the outreach part would be supported be all the campuses.
@Vince I like your Confessions of an Internet Pastor insights and questions. Till now I have been only a quite reader, but I think you have great ideas.
human3rror says
never too late!
vince says
word
human3rror says
😉