There appears to be a growing industry that’s not all that different from the world outside the church walls and it’s called something to the affect of “Spiritual Social Media Management” for Non Profits and the Church.
Essentially what this means is that someone or some business practically gets someone else’s username and password to a Twitter account and tweets for them.
This is just as much bullshit as non-Christian social media and it shows. This post is somewhat of an odd response (and nod of agreement) to the Director over at Sametz Blackstone and her post on “Calling Bullshit on Social Media.”
After having worked in very large corporate environments (Fox, Dell, NewsCorp) I heartily raise my hand and say:
My business? Guilty!
Poop.
Here’s what I propose we do about it:
- Stop copying the late 90’s strategy of lame internet marketing tactics. People connect with people and not websites.
- The Church is better than that. Bait-and-switch strategies kill relational momentum.
- Tweeting for someone is not Social Media Management. That’s called “Tweeting for someone too lazy to tweet themselves and who doesn’t get it.”
- Telling your congregation to quit Facebook or leave the Church is stupid.
- Telling your leaders that they need to be on Twitter, Facebook, and whatever else without justifiable and tangible cause is stupid.
- Saying that “Jesus would be on Twitter if he were alive today.” doesn’t even make sense and is not a reason for action.
- Your ROI is not like that of the world, so stop using it as a baseline strategy.
- Dogmatism as it relates to social media tools (or being a Mac user) is legalism. Stop it.
- Open Source, as it relates to software and the social web, is NOT the same thing as being an “open source” church. Stop borrowing terminology that you don’t understand.
- Read this article. Done? Read it again. Then tell someone else.
This is not necessarily a rant as much as it is a call to be a bit better than the generations before. They had TV and Radio. We have the internet. Same issues, different tools.
But at least we have Google.
DJ Chuang says
Brilliant article and briliant proposal. If I’m not misreading this, you’re proposing that ghost-tweeting is an abomination, and I’d agree. Yet there are prominent twitterers like Guy Kawasaki who does that. Or is it more okay if there’s full disclosure? Or, as long as it’s supplementing his tweets and not his complete outsourcing?
John Saddington says
full disclosure is awesome.
Eric Dye says
BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word.
Ben Miller says
Here’s another one to add to your list. It is useful in all social media contexts:
11. Using profanity where it is not expected just to shock people and draw attention is insulting to the readers/listeners that you already have. It’s also not a good example of being salt and light.
Ben Miller says
By the way, I agree with most of your article. 🙂
Daniel says
I have to agree with Ben on this one. I’m a Youth Pastor, and I don’t mind pushing the envelope to get people’s attention. But I do have to draw the line somewhere. This is a great post, John. You didn’t have to add the profanity to it to get your point across. I would have shared this post with my Pastor had it not been for the profanity. Now I can’t.
Sorry bro.
Chris Ames says
Daniel:
That is a bummer that you can’t share the article. As I read that, though, it spoke more to me about your pastor in a negative way than it did about John. I don’t think I could follow a pastor that made me feel like I had to filter out an article because of vernacular.
peace | dewde
Kevin says
I’d just edit out the parts that might be offensive…but I kinda agree with Chris too.
Justin Wise says
+10000000000
Tony says
Seriously guys? If the definitive point or line you draw in your life is this then you need to aim higher. What if the profanity is the most natural response coming through John’s voice on the topic?
I don’t want a clone of John that fits my little safety bubble. John needs to be John and I’m happy that he is.
Matthew Rathbun says
It’s a bit ironic that one uses vulgarity in order to illustrate that the church should act differently than the world.
However, I’m supportive of someone who states what he says instead of “christian cursing”. Too often Christians use “BS” or “Freaking” instead of the words that are really in their heart.
it’s not a technique that I would have used, but it served its purpose in that it grabbed my attention.
Luke says
FYI – she is not a VP at Radian6
ThatGuyKC says
Thank you SO MUCH for telling it like it is and being straight up.
The Church needs real, raw answers.
“People connect with people and not websites.” Amen!
“Stop borrowing terminology that you don’t understand.” Amen! Amen! (sermons would be shorter, haha)
I’m fascinated by social media and it’s broad range of applications and specifically how a church or non-profit organization can leverage it. Thank you!
Danny Bixby says
I like this post. That is all.
David Walker says
Great post John. I could not agree more. Mailing it in is just not worthy of the Kingdom. Its ironic that people who are far away from God are sometimes more sensitive to false sincerity and posing than some believers are.
Chris Ames says
“Its ironic that people who are far away from God are sometimes more sensitive to false sincerity and posing than some believers are”
100% agree.
peace | dewde
Kevin Cooper says
I’m retitling this post, “John Goes Off”. Nevertheless, you and the article you linked to make good points. One suggestion: Video Rants 🙂
J. D. Bentley says
Good post. I appreciate the title. Glad you didn’t water it down.
Kevin says
Well said, and I definitely agree with it. Loved the article over at Brass Tack too! …hate when people get all whiny over profanity though. If you want to share, copy, paste, edit. Anyway. Keep doing what you’re doing, John. You rock (and so does this post!).
Ben Miller says
I especially like how you gave us 10 rules to follow on social media, one of which is “Don’t be dogmatic about social media.” 🙂
Chris Ames says
HAHahah! Good one Ben.
peace | dewde
Trevor Taylor says
Right on!
“This is not necessarily a rant as much as it is a call to be a bit better than the generations before. They had TV and Radio. We have the internet. Same issues, different tools.”
We do have the same issues as the previous generations. We think they are different because we have shiny lights at church and iPhones. It is a relief to know someone else gets it! I can see it now in 30 years “But we have always had programmable moving lights in church and we always will. You young people need to fall in line.”
Stacey says
Bout time!
I’ve been ranting about stupid social media tactics like this in the Church for a while. I’ve even blogged on it before, and aside from a couple of random head nods, I felt like it was falling on deaf ears and clueless minds.
As for the language, I hadn’t planned on mentioning it, but since others have, I only have one thing to say about it: etymology. Study the etymological roots of any word considered “dirty,” and you’ll realize it’s just like every other word. Idols become idols when worshiped, and I’ve seen my fair share of Christians who worship language. Do I cuss like a sailor? No, so please don’t think I’m advocating for my own practices here.
Jim Gray says
i stepped in bullshit recently, it was nasty. the dog stuff is worse.
Jared Erickson says
But the bulls is usually bigger.. it can eat up a whole shoe!
Tony Perez says
The bottom line is what the Bible says about using filthy language. It says:
Colossians 3:8 (New King James Version)
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
Why would we want to be so blatant in violating the Word of God with an audience of thousands just for attention and controversy. It’s sad when we don’t simply look to the Scripture to guide our life and decisions.
Chris Ames says
Tony:
Debating on whether or not using an expletive is in violation of the Word of God is outside the scope of this blog, but you added:
“just for attention and controversy”
That brings up the questions of our motives so I’d like to address those. Our goal is to resource the Church. Collectively, the 8BIT team agrees that the content of this article resources the Church.
I hope you agree that this portion of your comment was presumptuous at best.
peace | dewde
Cat Mac says
So the blogger’s words are sanctified and worthy to be protected because said blogger has a stupendous and important point to make? But Scripture and what God says about filthy language is not to be addressed?
I think the tail just wagged the dog.
Trevor Taylor says
What determines filthy language? Culture or the heart? In this post the heart, I believe, is in the right place. Don’t attach cultural sins to the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was clear that sin is a heart matter, not cultural.
Cat Mac says
Ah, if you could judge where, exactly, the heart is on this issue, then YOU would be God.
But since you are not, all we have to go by is what God calls sin, not what the culture or anyone else calls it or how we judge another’s heart.
Intention, Oprah, is God’s business. What comes out of our mouths is our responsibility and God will hold us responsible for what we say, every idle word we speak, what we put before our eyes and how we lead others or fail to lead them. God holds words important – that’s why He gave us His.
Life and death are in the power of the tongue.
Cat Mac says
And this is precisely why I stay away from “Christian” websites, people with fish on their cars, businesses in the Shepherd’s Guide phone book, etc.
Quarreling, which the Bible says not to do, is just too easy. I fight less with the lost and the lost watch what Christians do to each other and then they don’t want any Jesus. And can you blame them?
The filthy word at the top of this page has brought shame on the name of Christ. And so has arguing about it. It doesn’t deserve an argument and it’s a shame that sort of thing is no longer cut and dried, black and white, right or wrong.
Who exactly does this website appeal to?
Trevor Taylor says
I guess the Apostle Paul not only shamed Christ but proved to be a hypocrite in his own writings.
Philippians 3:8 says “Indeed, I count everything as loss because of cthe surpassing worth of dknowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I ehave suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.”
“Rubbish” if literally translated would be SHIT.
Yes, I will cite my source from a guy who has multiple degrees and is a Greek Scholar (a.k.a. He is smarter than us). http://bible.org/article/brief-word-study-font-facegreekskuvbalonfont
Paul’s writings ended up in the Bible, so I guess it is safe to say his heart was in the right place.
No, this is not permission use explicits freely. It does show that there is a time and a place to use strong wording if necessary.
Stacey says
Thank you! I tried finding a similar article, but couldn’t remember where I found it. Like I said in my original comment above, a word’s meaning is locked away in its etymology, which makes all words the same.
Since we’re on a witch hunt to remove all the “dirty stuff” from Christianity, then we should probably have Song of Songs removed from the next printing of the Bible. Oh yeah, let’s not forget that Jesus was dirty too since His language was completely unacceptable to the Jews. We should edit some of the red text out of the Bible too.
Ben Miller says
Are you arguing that there is no such thing as dirty language? I think Colossians 3:8, the FCC, the MPAA, and parents everywhere would disagree. There is definitely such a thing as dirty, inappropriate language. Sure, there is debate about where exactly the line is, but to argue that there is no such thing as inappropriate language is silly, IMHO.
When you are talking about language, it does indeed come down to culture. Each language and culture has its own obscenities. The Bible does not have a list of English words that are forbidden, but it acknowledges that dirty language exists.
When choosing the title of the post, I’m sure that 8BIT was aware that it would offend some, and they decided that the benefit the post would get from the attention would be better than the respect that they would lose from a certain number of people. And they have every right to make that call.
But I don’t have to like it. 🙂
Matthew Rathbun says
I’d like to make one more observation here… It seems to me that the majority of the comments here are regarding the vulgarity.
For that very reason, I would think that this is reason enough to not use it.
The point of your comments and responses were focused on the use of the vernacular and not the actual point of your post.
If the content in one’s post isn’t sufficient to draw a crowd and you must resort to “shocking the proverbial conscious” was there really any value in the post?
The use of offensive words takes the focus off the content, both for us and the outsiders. We’ve just become one more element of evidence that the church is “a bunch of hypocrites”.
At times I feel that we try much to hard to become the very outsiders we were sent to minister to.
I don’t believe that cursing is that big of a deal, but it’s certainly not reflecting the Father – which should be my intention when speaking to others about our Faith.
Coach Spoon says
His statement may have been a little presumptuous but I doubt we’ll see any of the 8Bit team step out and say that attention, curiosity, and pageviews were no factor at all. Let’s face it…advertising pays the bills and advertisers want the most bang for their buck. “Full-time bloggers” have to write posts that attract readers…if nothing else, this post has done that. You guys are too smart and internet savvy to write a post with that title without it being strategic…just calling it like I see it.
Shawn says
This will be the last time I stop by any 8bit site. The profanity is the straw that broke the camel’s back. I need waders to get through the hypocrisy when 15 out of 18 tweets from 8bit networks this morning are ‘From the archives’. Instead of profanely ranting about ghost tweets, why not talk about geriatric tweets. Shock jock tactics for page hits isn’t what I was looking for at church crunch.
John Saddington says
cool man. see you later.
this might be a moot point now, but you could always subscribe via RSS instead of twitter. It’s pretty obvious that our twitter accounts per property aren’t there for “community development”. we’re not faking our tweets through our properties – it’s all automated.
it is a shame that one post that has one word broke the back of your apparently lightly-loaded camel, since we’ve had over 2,000+ posts that have encouraged and edified the church, non profits, and other such orgs worldwide. i’d be curious to know what lead up to the back-breaking if you’re open to a dialogue.
we’ll miss you, but not too much since you’ve only commented here 4 times (although this comment here was freaking awesome: https://churchm.ag/thoughts-on-christian-job-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-88762 ).
😉 ………. just kidding; we will miss you.
my point in saying this is that your pageviews were small and perhaps you haven’t been around long enough to see the much larger picture (and quantity of posts) here to get a good feeling of what we’re about.
take care my friend!
Patrick Woods says
Good post and better reply. Well executed on both accounts.
Chris Ames says
I would like to say that John doesn’t post messages like this in isolation. This was a classic case of him writing the post and then asking the 8BIT team (we are now 6 strong + 1 intern) for feedback.
We all have influence in the direction and tone of the articles posted here.
peace | dewde
Ben Miller says
Thanks for the insight into 8Bit. I really do appreciate what you guys do, and I’m certainly not going to stop reading your blogs over this. That having been said, I am definitely disappointed. Here are a few points that the 6+1 might want to think about for future articles:
1. Was the use of profanity required to make the point of your article? I don’t think it was. If you think it was necessary, maybe you need to expand your vocabulary? 🙂
2. If it was not required, why use it? The only other purposes I can think of is to shock, or to draw attention to yourself. This is exactly the kind of thing that both this article and the original article are speaking out against, right?
3. Several commenters are defending the specific word used. Honestly, we’re not merely talking about being politically correct, we are talking about one of the “7 words you can’t say on television.” When I read ChurchCrunch, I don’t expect it to be Not Suitable For Work. But this was, for many of us. Also, it was Not Suitable For Home, because I really don’t want my kids saying that word either. Do you say that word to your daughter at home? If not, why would you use it in your public writing?
Brandon Cox says
I’m distracted from your point by your profanity. I’m dissapointed in your use of it. I’m also disappointed in this whole hipster-Christian approach to defending it. It’s John’s “natural response?” Of course! Which is why the Holy Spirit comes into our lives to clean us up!
I love all you awesome 8bit people, but it stinks to see this.
John Saddington says
no pun intended, right?
😉
the use of the term was strategically borrowed from the referenced post. this happens often in journalism.
Chris Ames says
Thanks for weighing in, Brandon.
peace | dewde
Danny Bixby says
Lol @ the thought of John & Chris as hipsters.
Chris Ames says
As usual Danny comes in and identifies common ground… something we can all agree on :-D.
peace | dewde
Brandon Cox says
I understand the journalism angle, and I promise I’m not pronouncing any judgment on who you are. I just want to argue the other side of the journalism issue.
I write for a secular organization (Fuel Brand Network) and I see it as an opportunity to be a clean blogger and to be engaging with people who are respected in the secular realm, but all the while representing an ethic thoroughly determined by wanting to be Christlike in the marketplace.
An example might be Kirk Cameron. He’s a Christian and an actor, but has the standard of not kissing any woman other than his wife, in spite of the fact that it’s the industry standard for acting. He has an acting ethic affected by his commitment to Christ.
In my journalism, I want to be able to communicate with secular culture while representing a “clean, alternative” ethic. I’ve always liked that ChurchCrunch, from the beginning, has been a great voice, reaching across the tech-divide between Christianity and culture.
When people ask me who is leading the conversation about church/tech/theology/media, John Saddington is the first name that comes to my mind and I’ve told dozens of people you’re the go-to thought leader. So at the end of the day, you have to decide if you’re comfortable with the example and the ethic to which you’re calling your tribe.
Lots of eyes are watching you. 🙂
Danny Bixby says
What really caught me is the admission of guilt. How is your business guilty of this? Or is it something you were guilty of in the past?
(trying to steer some conversation away from the sideways energy)
I feel we are guilty in several ways as well, of which many I have no control over. so this post is very personally and professionally convicting for me
John Saddington says
i was referencing my time in corporate america.
John Saddington says
i was asked to do some things that i did not agree with in terms of social media engagement.
Mike Loomis says
Nice post…
Trevor Taylor says
The response to this post reminds me of when the Pharisees slammed Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. They got so caught up in Jesus healing/working on the Sabbath, that they totally overlooked that Jesus miraculously healed someone!!!
rob says
Trevor, you can’t compare John to Jesus. Read more Bible.
Justin Wise says
I find this to be one of the most refreshing posts I’ve read in some time.
When we make our faith about anything other than following Jesus (like, say, whether we swear or not), we lose. The gospel loses.
Well done, John!
Almightygod says
Of course I’m on Twitter. What, would you expect me to just be silent? To only speak to illiterate goat-herders? What kind of loving deity would pass up an opportunity to speak directly to all (internet-connected) humans without the filter of prophets, translations and interpretations?
Now follow me or I’ll punish you severely (after you die).