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	<title>Comments on: Flickering Pixels – Group Blogging Project – Chapter 5</title>
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	<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/</link>
	<description>Exploring the Intersection of Church and Technology</description>
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		<title>By: SCBubba</title>
		<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/#comment-40858</link>
		<dc:creator>SCBubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchcrunch.com/?p=5723#comment-40858</guid>
		<description>I was a bit confused by the &quot;oral culture&quot; piece as well. Reading Scripture and telling stories are not the same things. I agree that the mass availability of the printed word had an affect on western culture but to say that the church was not affected by it before Gutenberg is not really true. 
 
That being said, I think the mass production of the written word has led to some of the individualism Hipps describes in this chapter. Written or oral, reading and studying the Scriptures was a communal activity prior to general availability of printed Bibles and high percentages of literacy. Some churches still have something similar to communal Scripture in Sunday services or Sunday School, but the emphasis in many of them is to be introductory with the main study done individually (in my experience anyway). 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a bit confused by the &quot;oral culture&quot; piece as well. Reading Scripture and telling stories are not the same things. I agree that the mass availability of the printed word had an affect on western culture but to say that the church was not affected by it before Gutenberg is not really true. </p>
<p>That being said, I think the mass production of the written word has led to some of the individualism Hipps describes in this chapter. Written or oral, reading and studying the Scriptures was a communal activity prior to general availability of printed Bibles and high percentages of literacy. Some churches still have something similar to communal Scripture in Sunday services or Sunday School, but the emphasis in many of them is to be introductory with the main study done individually (in my experience anyway).</p>
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		<title>By: Adam_S</title>
		<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/#comment-40857</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam_S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchcrunch.com/?p=5723#comment-40857</guid>
		<description>I am just not sure how accurate an assumption that the early church was primarily an oral culture.  Certainly even if there were books they were listening to them being read and not all following along on powerpoint.  But even listening to a holy book (or letter from a friend) is different from a purely oral culture where we are talking about things being passed down from generation to generation.  Luke even directly addresses this when he talks about the fact that he is writing things down so that there was a place to have all of the stories compiled.  But he also assumes that his isn&#039;t a long (multi-generational) oral history because he says that the reader can go out and find out for themselves because these people are still alive. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just not sure how accurate an assumption that the early church was primarily an oral culture.  Certainly even if there were books they were listening to them being read and not all following along on powerpoint.  But even listening to a holy book (or letter from a friend) is different from a purely oral culture where we are talking about things being passed down from generation to generation.  Luke even directly addresses this when he talks about the fact that he is writing things down so that there was a place to have all of the stories compiled.  But he also assumes that his isn&#039;t a long (multi-generational) oral history because he says that the reader can go out and find out for themselves because these people are still alive.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Rossi</title>
		<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/#comment-40856</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Rossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchcrunch.com/?p=5723#comment-40856</guid>
		<description>Yes, I think you&#039;re right. I think this chapter primarily focused on the medium of the printed word, specifically how it shapes us without us knowing it. I sorta took a step back in my post by broadening the subliminal message idea from solely the print medium to the communication of our culture in general. The goal of my post was to continue Shane&#039;s introduction into the conversation, only I gave less answers than him. Oh, and I thought the Mr. Subliminal thing was funny. ;-) 
 
That&#039;s why I like what you&#039;re saying about our new ability to hear teaching and &quot;go to church&quot; without ever leaving our homes or meeting with other people. How has that happened? What can we possibly do to promote community in an environment of individualism? Huge questions. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think you&#039;re right. I think this chapter primarily focused on the medium of the printed word, specifically how it shapes us without us knowing it. I sorta took a step back in my post by broadening the subliminal message idea from solely the print medium to the communication of our culture in general. The goal of my post was to continue Shane&#039;s introduction into the conversation, only I gave less answers than him. Oh, and I thought the Mr. Subliminal thing was funny. <img src='http://cdn.churchm.ag/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>That&#039;s why I like what you&#039;re saying about our new ability to hear teaching and &quot;go to church&quot; without ever leaving our homes or meeting with other people. How has that happened? What can we possibly do to promote community in an environment of individualism? Huge questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan_Stewart</title>
		<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/#comment-40855</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan_Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchcrunch.com/?p=5723#comment-40855</guid>
		<description>Hmmmm ... I don&#039;t see subliminal messages as the key point of this chapter. I was struck with &quot;The invention of writing gave people the luxury of thinking apart from the tribe without concern of those thoughts disappearing.&quot; 
 
Hipps has illustrated this by pointing out that in cultures without printed word there is no way to store information or knowledge outside the mind. The community maintains knowledge by the community retaining it through repetition. Because of the printed word, and maybe more because of video technology, the church is no longer a community of believers.  
 
The early church gathered to retain and share knowledge through oral repetitions. Certainly there was writing, otherwise we would have the Bible today. Those writings were read, discussed, and ultimately shared through gatherings of people.  
 
Today we gather in churches to listen to one person expound on the Scripture; but, there is no discussion. No one is required to remember what is spoken so it can be shared with others. We can simply give a tract and move on -- if even that much is done. 
 
The gathering of believers has become an individual endeavor. An introvert, like myself, can be content to stay at home and skip the social aspects of the Sunday morning gathering. After all, we can listen to someone talk on the television, radio, or Internet. 
 
Interestingly, as a writer (a solitary profession), I still must depend on connection with people to share my product. 
 
More than subliminal messages of the medium, I think the point is what has the change of medium done to the Western culture. 
 
Maybe the subliminal message of this chapter was subliminal messages and I missed it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm &#8230; I don&#039;t see subliminal messages as the key point of this chapter. I was struck with &quot;The invention of writing gave people the luxury of thinking apart from the tribe without concern of those thoughts disappearing.&quot; </p>
<p>Hipps has illustrated this by pointing out that in cultures without printed word there is no way to store information or knowledge outside the mind. The community maintains knowledge by the community retaining it through repetition. Because of the printed word, and maybe more because of video technology, the church is no longer a community of believers.  </p>
<p>The early church gathered to retain and share knowledge through oral repetitions. Certainly there was writing, otherwise we would have the Bible today. Those writings were read, discussed, and ultimately shared through gatherings of people.  </p>
<p>Today we gather in churches to listen to one person expound on the Scripture; but, there is no discussion. No one is required to remember what is spoken so it can be shared with others. We can simply give a tract and move on &#8212; if even that much is done. </p>
<p>The gathering of believers has become an individual endeavor. An introvert, like myself, can be content to stay at home and skip the social aspects of the Sunday morning gathering. After all, we can listen to someone talk on the television, radio, or Internet. </p>
<p>Interestingly, as a writer (a solitary profession), I still must depend on connection with people to share my product. </p>
<p>More than subliminal messages of the medium, I think the point is what has the change of medium done to the Western culture. </p>
<p>Maybe the subliminal message of this chapter was subliminal messages and I missed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Rossi</title>
		<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/#comment-40854</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Rossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchcrunch.com/?p=5723#comment-40854</guid>
		<description>I think you have some good points. Regarding your first paragraph: I&#039;m not sure about the psychological statistics about subliminal messages, but I said in the post that I was more aware of Kevin Nealon&#039;s joking parenthetical comments than of his complete sentences. Perhaps that happened to me because his messages weren&#039;t all that subliminal...I guess they sorta interrupted and thus stuck out. I&#039;m not sure the reasoning, but I stand by my initial perception. 
 
And as far as your second paragraph, I see your point there, too. To be honest, I would not notice those underlying messages most of the time. I imagine most people would simply accept the words that were spoken and not realize the hypocrisy occurring. Some would argue that that&#039;s why they&#039;re called &quot;subliminal&quot; messages, but I think there&#039;s a point where things like that just go unnoticed completely. 
 
I&#039;m not sure what you mean by your third paragraph. Could you clarify? 
 
And now I might go search and see if I can find studies on the effectiveness of subliminal messages... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have some good points. Regarding your first paragraph: I&#039;m not sure about the psychological statistics about subliminal messages, but I said in the post that I was more aware of Kevin Nealon&#039;s joking parenthetical comments than of his complete sentences. Perhaps that happened to me because his messages weren&#039;t all that subliminal&#8230;I guess they sorta interrupted and thus stuck out. I&#039;m not sure the reasoning, but I stand by my initial perception. </p>
<p>And as far as your second paragraph, I see your point there, too. To be honest, I would not notice those underlying messages most of the time. I imagine most people would simply accept the words that were spoken and not realize the hypocrisy occurring. Some would argue that that&#039;s why they&#039;re called &quot;subliminal&quot; messages, but I think there&#039;s a point where things like that just go unnoticed completely. </p>
<p>I&#039;m not sure what you mean by your third paragraph. Could you clarify? </p>
<p>And now I might go search and see if I can find studies on the effectiveness of subliminal messages&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Adam_S</title>
		<link>http://churchm.ag/flickering-pixels-%e2%80%93-group-blogging-project-%e2%80%93-chapter-5/#comment-40853</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam_S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchcrunch.com/?p=5723#comment-40853</guid>
		<description>Ok I am going to jump in.  I found some more to agree with this chapter.  But I will talk about the Mr Subliminal.  Personally the reason I think that Mr Subliminal is funny is because it is such a characture of reality.  Reality is that subliminal advertising doesn&#039;t really work.  We have all watched ads that when we finish we have no idea what it was for.  Those ads may be cool, but they don&#039;t sell anything because we don&#039;t know what they were supposed to sell in the first place.   
 
Mr Subliminal doesn&#039;t exist in the real world.  Yes there are underlying messages, &quot;give to the poor&quot; (but we will send you a glossy magazine and 20 mailings a year).  Or we believe that education is important (so we build a new football statium but don&#039;t fund the AP science trip).  Or we believe missions are important and have someone speak about it about once a week (but only 1 percent of our church budget goes toward funding missions.)  Those messages are not so much subliminal as messages that are just too uncomfortable to talk about because it reveals a little too much about us. 
 
I still think that Hipps hurts his message by hyperbole.  If he would tone down his arguement and make it a bit clearer with more definitions I might agree with him more. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok I am going to jump in.  I found some more to agree with this chapter.  But I will talk about the Mr Subliminal.  Personally the reason I think that Mr Subliminal is funny is because it is such a characture of reality.  Reality is that subliminal advertising doesn&#039;t really work.  We have all watched ads that when we finish we have no idea what it was for.  Those ads may be cool, but they don&#039;t sell anything because we don&#039;t know what they were supposed to sell in the first place.   </p>
<p>Mr Subliminal doesn&#039;t exist in the real world.  Yes there are underlying messages, &quot;give to the poor&quot; (but we will send you a glossy magazine and 20 mailings a year).  Or we believe that education is important (so we build a new football statium but don&#039;t fund the AP science trip).  Or we believe missions are important and have someone speak about it about once a week (but only 1 percent of our church budget goes toward funding missions.)  Those messages are not so much subliminal as messages that are just too uncomfortable to talk about because it reveals a little too much about us. </p>
<p>I still think that Hipps hurts his message by hyperbole.  If he would tone down his arguement and make it a bit clearer with more definitions I might agree with him more.</p>
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