Have you heard the confession of Emily White?
She is a D.C. college student interning at NPR who has become famous — maybe infamous?
Emily admits to owning 11,000 songs that she’s never paid for, essentially more than $2,000 from artists.
Although, if you figured .99 per song, the figure is much, much higher.
Does Emily’s story sound familiar?
How much music do you … uh … own?
I’ve found the debate quite interesting, as I am shocked at the number of songs that are stolen/pirated, leading to the demise of artists and has even caused a reduction in the number of artists and bands.
And then I read Shaun Groves take on it:
That’s not all he had to say.
He goes on to talk about his own experience as a musician:
“Overnight, my new CD was available on Grooveshark and other streaming services that don’t pay artists. It was immediately on illegal file sharing sites made profitable by Google ads.”
If you didn’t know, Shaun Groves is a Christian.
He is a HUGE advocate for Compassion International and in case you’re wondering, yes, he creates “Christian” music.
So, then, who’s downloading his album from illegal file sharing sites?
Yeah.
That’s what I thought.
What’s going on here?
Chris(Churchpunk) says
It is thieving Christians like I used to be. Free music on Napster was like crack. And it took a while before I gave it up and started compensating the artists for their creation. In fact, I now try to buy direct from them if I can because they make the most off of those purchases. People need to learn to respect them and help them get paid so that they can create more audio goodness for our ears.
Eric Dye says
Agreed. I especially try to purchase directly from the artist if they’re independent.
Calum Henderson says
A good reminder, but sad to see that some Christians would still pirate music even though it is so clearly stealing.
Having said that, nobody is perfect. That’s why we need Jesus. 🙂
Eric Dye says
True story.
Paul Clifford says
I just don’t think that people who pirate would have bought the content, unless it’s not available otherwise (like the Game of Thrones television show). I don’t pirate anything. My books have been downloaded thousands of times when they’re free, but I don’t sell nearly that many. Why? Free is powerful. If I could get tens of thousands of people to download my stuff, I could make money from other things, like speaking or the sale of physical goods.
I’ve met Shaun, but I think that most people who want his stuff buy it. Those who download it don’t care enough to buy it, so they’re primarily not fans. Maybe there are exceptions.
Don’t hear me wrong. Don’t steal. Content creators just need to realize that piracy isn’t by fans it’s by potential fans. Market to them and make them want to buy your stuff.
Paul
Jonathan Assink says
“Content creators just need to realize that piracy isn’t by fans it’s by potential fans.”
Agreed.
Eric Dye says
Oh! Okay! That makes it okay then … you know … as a Christian …
Eric Dye says
Meh.
Paul Clifford says
I’m not saying to pirate. Don’t pirate. It’s not okay! Don’t do it.
I’m saying that most pirates weren’t going to buy what you’re selling at any price. You haven’t lost any money because they weren’t going to give you any. Since digital copies cost you nothing to produce (the original did, but not the copies), you can view each copy that’s stolen as being a part of a giveaway. If you give away you’re content, that’s advertising. Piracy is like advertising if you quit fixating on how much you should have made from selling the content and think about how much you could make if the people that stole it like it and buy the next thing. Understand? I want Shaun to look at it as advertising, not theft. It can have an intangible benefit to the creator.
One more time, it’s wrong to steal; don’t do it. Piracy is stealing.
Shaun Groves says
I look at it as both. Yes, it is promotion. But it is first of all illegal (aka sin.)
Eric Dye says
Okay, cool. Good to hear what the bottom line is for you, Paul 😀
I think promotion is great, but it needs to be done in a NoiseTrade type of environment, not some black-market Internet back ally. We’re all Christians, after all, so let’s stay in the light.
Jeremy Smith says
All content I have, I have legally purchased. It may illegally be backed up on ripped discs for those “just in case moments” but in my mind no ethic or moral issues have been broken here.
Eric Dye says
Nor would the artists. Agreed.
Jonathan Assink says
This is no longer a black and white issue about stealing vs paying. It’s about cultural shifts in media consumption and the growth of “free” culture. I think the future of media consumption isn’t digital purchases, it’s subscription services.
For example: I don’t buy movies anymore. I don’t torrent movies either. Why? Because between Netflix (and RedBox) I don’t need to. Why pay $20 for a DVD (or more for Bluray) when for $8 I can have access to pretty much everything I could want, when I want, where I want? Similarly with music, I’ve been a user of the Zune service (yes, harhar, say what you will but it’s awesome) for years now and LOVE it. For the way and the volume that I consume music, I love paying $10 a month for unlimited music. If there does happen to be an album I really want that isn’t available, I don’t torrent it. I find it on Amazon Mp3 or Bandcamp.
But here’s the thing right now. Between Pandora, Grooveshark, Spotify, Bandcamp, Rdio, Rhapsody, Slacker, Zune and more, how are users and consumers supposed to figure out what is legitimate and what isn’t?
Is Emily White an evil master villain stealing funding from poor African children? Of course not. And to suggest that the people torrenting Shaun Groves album are stealing from Charity International because they aren’t buying his music is equally ridiculous. As a twentysomething who caught the tail end of the Napster revolution I’m sick and tired of being guilty until proven innocent when it comes to music consumption. Artists, labels and consumers are all guilty at some level. The whole system is broken.
Eric Dye says
I think you’ve missed a few points:
1. Never was it suggested that by taking Shaun Groves music was stealing from Compassion International.
2. Emily White brought this issue to light, but we’re focusing on the fact that Christian artists are being effected by this — Christians are taking music without paying for it. That’s the issue here on ChurchMag.
3. It’s not hard to know if your music is legit. Did you download it? Where’s the receipt?
4. If the security system is broken at the Apple Store and the employee forgets to lock the door when he leaves, is it okay to walk in and take an Apple? After all, if the system is broken …
Moreover, as Christians, we live by a higher law.
Ken Rosentrater says
Very concise, direct, and on target response.
Eric Dye says
Thanks, Ken. 🙂
Isaac Taylor (@Isaac_Taylor) says
Now we get to steal music from Spotify!!
Eric Dye says
As long as Spotify has arrangements with the record companies and/or artists and have agreed to terms, how would paying for Spotify be “stealing?”
James Cooper says
Have you seen Derek Webb’s recent post on spotify? He might be on there, but he doesn’t like it! http://derekwebb.tumblr.com/post/13503899950/giving-it-away-how-free-music-makes-more-than-sense thought provoking stuff from Derek (like his music!)
The only music I’ve downloaded without paying for, has either been on Noise Trade or very old Christmas LPs that aren’t under copyright anymore!
Eric Dye says
Yeah. I dig Webb. He’s got some good points.
YOU! Download pirated music! I would never think that. You’re too awesome to do that!
(Noise Trade rocks — literally.)
James Cooper says
When I say ‘old and out of copyright’ I mean that – no pirating here!
From places like: http://ernienotbert.blogspot.co.uk/ most are 50s/60s LPs that are no longer available (and haven’t been for YEARS) and there’s no royalties to pay…
I see this as keeping this music alive (which is more than most of the artists involved!). And these days you can’t get great stuff like this: http://ernienotbert.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/better-lester.html (really, download this one – it might be the best xmas album you’ll ever own – SERIOUSLY!)
Eric Dye says
Sweet links, James!!!
Thank you!
Dave Shrein says
Dont steal. Do what’s right and encourage others to do the same.
Eric Dye says
Exactly. #amen
Kevin Ring says
You raise some important points here. But I have to wonder, do you have an agreement with Shawn where you pay him or he gets some portion of your advertising revenue in exchange for you using his content? Or should those of us who feel condemned right now head over to his site and click on some of his ads? I’d hate for him to have to give up blogging too.
Eric Dye says
Actually he pays us, since we advertised his website and all. 😛
Paul Clifford says
What was Shaun’s point on Groove shark? It’s a legal service isn’t it? If they “don’t pay the artists” isn’t that the record company’s fault for signing such an agreement with them? My memory is that FM radio doesn’t pay the artist either, but no one complains that they’re stealing, why not?
Paul Clifford says
Ok, just checked GrooveShark. If Shaun’s music is there, he can issue a DMCA takedown notice if he’s still independent (I’ve lost track). If he’s signed a record deal, there’s nothing he can do other than have the record label stop it. Either way, torrent sites are the only issue he should have. Mentioning GrooveShark was a distraction. It’s like saying, “It’s on YouTube.” If your content is on Youtube, have them take it down. End of story.
Shaun Groves says
Good to know! Thank!
Eric Dye says
Dude. You’re all over this!!!!
I love it!!!!
Great points, great info, as always, Paul, thank you!